Mud pond build

[Kntry]

Here are a couple of pics of the mud pond. The first is in February 2010 and the second March. It is approx. 30x70x5' and 70,000 gallons.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r14/kntry/Bowled/MudPond2-21-10.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r14/kntry/Bowled/Pondandsideofhouse.jpg

[DCinKS]

How does it stay full? Do you have to add special soil?

[Squidhead]

Not with red clay! I can tell you that much. One nice thing is our neighborhood will have 2 retention ponds. It does already, but we can't fill them until we are 100% built out, EPA regs. I think I'll start a "Pond Committee" in our HOA.

[koikeepr]

For mud ponds to hold, folks use what's called koi clay--basically bentonite. This natural clay has incredible coagulating properties and forms an essentially water-tight barrier which holds water in and prevents water escape. It becomes, in essence, like a liner. This is what the Japanese use in their ponds, and koi actually grow better and bigger in these muddy waters. Most mud ponds I've seen have at least a foot thick of bentonite. The clay is made up of lots or rich minerals that benefit the fish. You need to use filtration, just like in a liner pond. For example, in the oil drilling disaster we've just had in the gulf, when they say that they are throwing mud into the pipe to kill the flow, they are using this type of swelling bentonite.

There are two types of koi clay that folks use in ponds: the one I mention above, which is sodium bentonite and swells up. The second kind is calcium bentonite, and is it a non-swelling koi clay that many folks use in their ponds to add good minerals for the fish. Folks mix it with the fish food and the belief is that the water quality improves and the fish are healthier. Lots of folks claim that calcium bentonite makes string algae release it's grip from your pond so you can remove it.

Gene, who has a very well known pond retail shop for many years, is well known for the quality of his calcium bentonite. You can see his site here (http://www.koiclay.com/index.asp).

[Kntry]

You are correct. I have 50 lbs. of koi clay from Gene right now. I've used it for many years in my liner ponds for fish health. I've also put it in my smoothies in the morning. It is very good for human health also.

Unfortunately, I would need 2 tractor trailer loads of bentonite for this pond and the closest supplier is in Texas. The red clay is approx. 4' thick and will not allow water to pass through. All ponds will leak a little until they settle.

[Kntry]

I forgot to add, mud ponds do not use filtration. The soil acts as a filter along with the VERY low stocking density (1 koi per 10,000 gallons). They are aerated but not filtered.

[koikeepr]

so you are going straight and pure natural then! Wow! What's your plan for evaporation?

The mud pond I'm familiar with has skimming filtration in it. The gentleman lives on a very wooded property so he didn't want a leafy mess. He actually DIY'ed this massive water treatment container of 1000 gallons and buried it alongside the pond. It's got this huge mouth that brings in the leaves. Of course, his pond is nowhere near 70,000g's. I think it's like 15-20,000. He has a pump that recirculates water through this container and back out. He has this crazy huge leaf rack that he just cleans out every few days. He does have a koi clay layer on the pond, and I remember he said it cost an arm and a leg to truck it in.

I'm terribly impressed at your audacity! Wonderful!

[Carolinagirl]

15,000 to 20,000 is actually really small for a mud pond. I guess with that size, you would have to do something extra. But for a normal mud pond, they are never filtered. In the mountains of Japan, the hills are covered with mud ponds of all sizes. None are filtered, and there is not even electricity to most of them.

[Kntry]

15,000-20,000 gallons is a fairly normal size for a koi pond if you want the girls to grow to their full potential. My last at the old house was 13,000 gallons. The new one will be about 15x25x8', about 22,000 plus filtration.

I've never heard of a mud pond being filtered. I've been to 2 breeders and none of their ponds are filtered. Just aerated. Purdin near my home in Louisiana takes the mud ponds down twice a year, lets them dry out, tills them under and refills them. The other one has someone "walk" the ponds every day to stir up the bottom so it doesn't become anaerobic. I have a pipe near the bottom of mine that sucks water from the lower 1' of the pond and sprays it back across the top of the pond so that no stagnant, unoxygenated water stays at the bottom. That's all that's necessary in a mud pond.

Since the general rule of thumb is to have a "system" for each 5,000 gallons of water, it would cost a fortune to filter a mud pond. There's no reason to filter it anyway. Closed systems are totally different. Although a mud pond is still a closed system compared to a river constantly being fed new water, there is such a low stocking rate that no filtration is needed.

You can also build a flow through liner/concrete pond that doesn't need filtration other than a shower maybe. It's constantly being fed fresh water.

[koikeepr]

I think this fellow really had no choice with the location he had the pond in--like I said heavily wooded. He did not want the leaves cluttering up the pond, so he built this contraption that almost resembled like a hydrofalls in a damned up lake. The water gently falls over the edge and then into this leaf ledge, kinda like a long basket of sorts that he built out. then it just returns back into the pond. He had a water pump on the other side to sort of act like a surface jet of sorts to gently push leaves/debris toward this gizmo. Retired gentleman with too much money and not much to do other than trick out his pond. LOL!

[Kntry]

Whatever works. Every pond is different. A skimmer on a mud pond near trees is a good idea. I really should have one on mine.

[addy1]

Thanks for the explanation of mud ponds, I knew they could be made, never thought koi would be raised in them though. You both explain very well, thanks

[koikeepr]

Whatever works. Every pond is different. A skimmer on a mud pond near trees is a good idea. I really should have one on mine.

Exactly right! What is right for one ponder may not be right for another. To each his/her own, as they say. I don't judge anyone for any decisions they have made on their pond. I can certainly make suggestions, but at the end of the day everyone will do as they think is proper for their situation. What I love about ponding is that it certainly is not one-size-fits-all. I'm always fascinated by the level of creativity from pond folks!

[Kntry]

Yep, you can even get away with overcrowded situations for a while IF you're experienced enough to know how to manage your water quality. That is best left to someone that's been keeping koi for many years though.

[koikeepr]

Well, ain't that the truth to it all in the end Kntry--water quality! I can't stop talking about water changes! water changes! water changes! I think I've bored our users to death with water changes. LOL!

[Kntry]

That's ok. As long as they do them regularly, that's all that counts. You'd be surprised at how many people don't even know what a water change is.

[koikeepr]

Oh, agreed! They go months and months with fish dying and no water change ever. We advocate a MINIMUM of a 20-25% weekly water change here with proper dechlor added if necessary. I do always say that during the hot summer months, two+ water changes per week are even better, but I'm always happy if I can get our users to do at least one water change per week.

[Kntry]

You're on the right track!

[cliffandjoann]

That sure is impressive Sandy.:yes:

[ponderpaul]

[QUOTE=koikeepr;1614]For mud ponds to hold, folks use what's called koi clay--basically bentonite. QUOTE]

If folks are interested in trying this, they might researh bentonite in building materials. I don't know now, but it used to be sold in sheet form to waterproof concrete basement walls. Possibly somewhat cheaper than 50# bags.

[koikeepr]

Never heard of bentonite sheets. Hmmm.....

[ponderpaul]

I've never heard of a mud pond being filtered. I've been to 2 breeders and none of their ponds are filtered. I really enjoy visiting the farm where I buy my fish. His ponds are all mud, no filtration or mechanical aeration. His water supply is beautiful clear cold spring water which flows continually through the ponds. They usually go down once or twice a year depending on what purpose they are serving.

[Kntry]

Having a flow through mud pond with great source water is every koikeepers dream!

I'm going to check into the bentonite sheets. I need to see what else is there to make them into sheets. It may not be fish friendly.

[koikeepr]

And how would one seam the sheets together would be another question. Are these sheets flat boards that would be suitable for a square/rectangular pond? Most intriguing.