adding to the lily pond

[Meganne]

ok, here is the new plan> going to plumb a reto BD through the back side of the lily pond wall below water level, running the pvc on the pond bottom from that deepest tail area. Instead of a using an old filter barrel, which ended up being pulmbed wrong for what I wanted to do, I ealized I have a big piece of extra linner! so I am going to build a 6'x12'-ish race way of sorts for a settling chamber, with simple bottom drains like the one I put in my lotus pond. I can empty the raceway/lilypond into the hedges. this area of the yard is about 6-8 inches lower than the main lily pond and slops away from the pond so I should be able to get the race way to drain or at least flush.
I will plumb the race way to the showers sitting up on the lotus pond.
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9542.jpg

and I am considering putting an isolated bog down where the lotus pond flushed out at:huh:
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9543.jpg

[pskorf]

oh gosh here it goes
I wouldn't do that raceway thingy but guess i should ask questions first how many gallons is the lily pond now just lily pond part? now say it 3,000 gallons now race way could be around 1,000 gallons.now if you drain the raceway that is ALOT of water plus being that size you will need to spray it down to move crud to drain even more water
now with one retro drain still have some build up of crap in lily pond unless it slopes more then i think????????so some annual cleanout or vaccuum still might be needed.
your next downfall will be filter do not know what size pump you have but the little waterflow you had(going from memory) plus water was green(yes from koi but do not think it would get any better with extra water) did you ever see the anoxic system.never tried myself but seems like it would work some what.(uses plain kitty litter instead of dirt for plants)maybe the lilies will not bloom as much either ?????? but use reg plants like taro sweetflag stuff that does not need bloom.if wanting to use the extra liner i would build the lotus pond bigger and raised with the drain to make that easier to clean.i can never keep my sarrassa in my top pond but maybe you can figure something out and have sarrassa in top and longfin in bottom(still might wreck some havic on your waterlilies tho the longfins.

so kind of a combonation of each ??????
but main thing is water turnover and what amount of waste water can you deal with??
maybe a bog with holes in bottom of liner so water can seep away underground but can hold all the waste water????

just throwing more things out there.

[Meganne]

all good things to throw at me Paul! lol

the area with the Bog sprayed on it for waste water.
and I am thinking no plants in the biggest old pond
I do have some cinder blocks around the side of the house, I could raise the new lily pond perhaps, hmmmmmm?

[Appliance Guy]

Don't forget you can borrow my cement mixer if needed!

[Meganne]

ok, I got a little disrtacted with some road trips and adding a long ramp from the back door to the workshop.
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9839.jpg
then because they sat in the path of the new ramp I had to re- do the fire pit and all the big pavers.....
I have a nice black nail to prove I did the work, ouch!
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9837.jpg

so here is the revised plan. the small end of the pond is getting a nonitch skimmer plumbed through the pond wall to the pump(under the fake rock) and this already goes around the pond to the flower pot showers at the top of the lotus pond. a retro bottom drain goes in the same area, being it is the deepest and furthest from the waterfall, I am going to run the pvc from it along the bottom of the pond through the wall and to the new large settling area behind the pond. this will be pumped to two sand and gravel filters salvaged and rebuilt from my old diy 55 gal barrels. they will sit to the end of the sc by the hedge and gravity back to the pond. all the lilies are coming out of the lily pond and I will have plants up in the lotus pond and in the sc area...my version of the blended pond
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9843.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9844.jpg

[Kntry]

I'm glad somebody has finally started working. LOL

Drill a hole in your nail. It will relieve the pain.

[Will]

I think I like it, just confused on the layout. Reminds me of my crazy plans for the back yard, which I've been working on and thinking about and revising constantly. I'll get it somewhat complete someday. Good luck with it, Meg!

[Meganne]

skimmer-pump-flower pot showers- lotus pond-waterfall-pond
and
retro BD-settle chamber aka new lily pond- pump- 1 or 2 S&G filters-pond

do that help Will?

[Meganne]

I'm glad somebody has finally started working. LOL

Drill a hole in your nail. It will relieve the pain.

today I got the blocks level with the water level of the main pond, and did a darn good job of that if I gotta say so. lol.
and got the area behind the main pond and lotus pond built up with what I dug out. I will go down a good foot or so and get it 18-20 inches deep for the lilies. then I will figure out the plumbng. I am going to make it simple as I can.

[Meganne]

oh, and that new area ended up being 8'X4'
sometimes you just make what ya got to build with. Sandy remember that pile of salvaged cinder block you saw that clued you in to being at my house...LOL!

[Luvmypond]

I just want to say I love the patina on your benches !!!! Ok, back to your pond .....

[Meganne]

Doreen, I pressure wash them clean every year, now each year i wil think of how much you and Sandy liked them like this as I am blasting them clean! lol

[Luvmypond]

And here I am trying to get that on my Foo Dogs .... lol I spray them at night when the sun goes down, but they are in full sun during the day. And I have a Gargoyle that I water .... ha ha ha Even my grand kids know that when they water my plants, they must water the Gargoyle. He's in the shade and still no patina :(
Yes, you think about me screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO the next time you power wash them ... lol

[Will]

Try wiping them down with yogurt and buttermilk mixed, then keep chlorinated water off them.

[Luvmypond]

I will try that this Spring. Does that work even if they are in the sun?

[Will]

Well, it's gotta have a north side, that will work 1st. You can reapply from time to time, it gives whatever might take hold more to grow on. Spraying with mild liquid fertilizer solution would surely help, too. Newer concrete is the hardest to establish, periodic sprays with vinegar help. I've had pretty good luck getting moss to grow on the shadiest side, even in sun, by adding a few varieties of local moss to the mix in a blender, and brushing it on. Biggest thing I've found is keeping chlorinated water away from it, pond water works great.

[Meganne]

Ryan and I finally got a huge stump out of the front yard, he had been buring and hacking away at it over some long months and we got the hole filed in this last weekend so this weekend it was back to the back to the lily pond
I got the hole nice and shaped (wednesday night I found poor Jack bouncing around in here like a pinball game at 2 in the morning!)
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9874.jpg

I had thouhgt all the water flushed from the upper pond would be good for the yard but to much "stuff" and it smothered the lawn behind the pond so this area will be to collect that clean out water for a bog
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9872.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9878.jpg

next week...plumbing and hopefully linner ...praying for nice weather

[Will]

Awesome! I like it, Meg. Looks a lot like what I'm doing, but you're a good bit ahead of me right now. I just keep plugging away at all my projects, too.

[Lilylady]

Looking good, Meg. My thumb hurt in sympathy when I read that. Ouchie!

[Meganne]

LouAnn al my lilies and lotuses get some love and attention this year, I am noy sure wha I have elft they are so terribly neglected.

[Meganne]

the bottom garden pot tower/shower is full of bio balls kept together in a cylander of small chicken wire
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_5540.jpg

the problem is it is difficult to deal with and occasionally clean out. heavy and full of glunk(and I have even seen earth worms in there!)
so I am dividing the bio balls and putting them in milk crates, one in each shower, should be much easier to handle
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9883.jpg

[Meganne]

and I threaded the pcv for the retro bottom drain
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9885.jpg

and the clean out drain for the SC/filter
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9886.jpg

then I started to drain the pond, does it look like I need more filtration or what!!
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9887.jpg
and lookie what I found in there, about 8 really lovely sarrassa with loooong fins are in the group and I think I'll be keeping those
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_9890.jpg

[Will]

Amazing where those suckers'll turn up, eh? I've found 'em in old 5g buckets in rainwater.

[Meganne]

without much turnover in the pond, no bottom drain and little filtration you end up with this.....
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0005.jpg

and as Zac pointed out in another thread, with out a prefilter your showers end up like this....
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0016.jpg

but with a little child labor it can be over come. the bio balls are nowdivided into 2 milk crates one for each pot. they sit inside about 3 inches off the bottom of the pot.
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0018.jpg

[Meganne]

Nathaniel also helped me sludge out the pond and collect up these little beauties
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0008.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0010.jpg

for right now they are up in the top lotus pond till I get everything else plumbed
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0013.jpg


ps. I culled hard over the last couple summers to end up with this lot of sarrassa with the long tails and bright colors

[Will]

Child labor is underrated, eh?

[Lilylady]

Nice helper. The best kind.

[stroppy]

looks like hes having Fun ! very pretty fish :)

[addy1]

Beautiful fish! They will love their new home.

[Meganne]

Child labor is underrated, eh?
specaily when they aren't yours. he cleaning out the bio balls he complained he was getting tired(ya mean bored!! haha!) and I told him I'd take him home...he decided he wasnt "that" tired!!! lol!


today I lowered the plumbing to the pump and added a check valve and put it through the pond wall for the no nitch.
this plumbing stuff takes longer than it looks!
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0020.jpg

next I'll tacklet this bit, the pvc will lay on the pond floor....why oh why didnt I put in a bottom drain to begin with?!!!
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0021.jpg

[Kntry]

Good job, Meg.

Retro fitting plumbs sucks majorly. Nothing ever lines up and you always need 1 more fitting that you don't have.

[Lilylady]

I am doing this to a friend's pond as soon as the gnats calm down. I hope it goes smoothly as yours does. I have all the "bits" but will be doing it while the hardware store is open. It so needs a bottom drain.

[Will]

Looks like you did a great job smoothing wrinkles out, though. Could always pop up that coping and run it under the liner! :lol:

[Meganne]

omg Will! It was hard enough putting it on the inside with without having to shore up the whole side!
pfffffft!!

[tranquility]

Lookin' good sista....honestly considering you even had koi in that pond--the bottom was not nearly mucked up as I've seen some ponds....This upgrade will sure make the maintance alot easier....
Lawanna

[D1Case]

Great Pictures! I really like how we can see the problem, and your progress. Next year you will have to revive this thread with pictures showing the difference a little filtration really makes. Thanks!

[addy1]

Very nice, great work there!

[Meganne]

we went east this past weekend and had a visit with Connie and being she is culling ALL her little ones these two came home to the lily pond.
they are currently hanging out with the goldfish in the lotus pond
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0034.jpg

[Meganne]

ok, I am making progress.
I got 4 more pieces of pvc through the liner and fitted with rubber couplings, 2 2inchers and 2 3inchers, the 3 inch pipes were a LOT harder to do!
but as soon as it is cured I can fill it back up. swept the bottom clen again and filled it about a third today.
and fixed 3 holes that I am pretty sure the dog put in with his nails while it was empty! arrrrrrgh!!!!

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0047.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0051.jpg

[Meganne]

can you tell this one was a b*#ch to get on?? LOL! I had marine selant all over me and the liner!
and today when I put the cap stones back in place I traped a VERY large SNAKE behind the liner. I was trying to smooth the liner out as the water was rising and felt it behind the liner under my hand!
he lives in the creek down the street now....
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0059.jpg

[Will]

Lookin' good, Meg! No snake pics?

[addy1]

lol Will same thing I was thinking. Glad you just moved it rather than doing a shovel job on the lil ole snake.

[Meganne]

no pics, I used to take pictures of them but they are all the same ol kinda water snake and like how many pictures of that dos one need? I removed 8 one summer!
but this one was the bigges and aggressive, he didnt want to be removed, sometimes I wonder if it the same fellow each time, thinking of blind folding him next time and taking a drive! LOL

[Meganne]

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0056.jpg
and it works! (just as long as you have O-rings at all the approppriate spots! lol!)
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0069.jpg

and after all that measuring and leveling the back side of the settleing pnd needs to be raised about 3 inches! and the sand and gavel barrel need putting together
but the drainout bog is ready fo planting!!
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0082.jpg

the goldies in the little upper pond are happy some of the filtration is back on and two have already found thier way down the water fall and stream to the big pond
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0086.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0075.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0072.jpg

[tranquility]

the plants are starting to come up...so won't be long...Hey what are the tree looking things in with the goldfish?
Lawanna

[Meganne]

those tree looking things are ....trees! rofl!
they are Bald Cypresses that the bonsai society purchased for the club to make bonsai out of. they have been chopped, as you can see, and I put mine in the pond to see if I can get some knees to come up in a few years. they looked like dead sticks two weeks ago

[addy1]

I have some neat cypress knees. I love the look of them. Mine are in the living room.

[tranquility]

Oh well those are neat.....
Lawanna

[Meganne]

they are bright green and feathery right now Lawanna, I love them.

[Meganne]

arrrrrrrgh!
the pond has a leak!
it had been leaking prior to the clean out and I had been topping it off all the time. I have checked the plumbing out side the pond and it is good and the pump is off and with nothing running though the plumbing the water level is still going down. the upper little pond is holding water and fine.
the water is nearly below the plumbing I put through the walls of the pond so I will find out soon if those are the problem spots.

odd thing is I can not see any wet in the yard as to where all this water is going. at first I thought it was the plumbing at the base of the showers because the ground seems to be always damp there but I dug it all up and everything is fine and not leaks in the pvc at this point. and now that everything is off, as I said, the water is still going down.

I did notice the liner was quite dry and brittle while it was empty, I thought it was the dry algea and dirt stuck in that which caused it to seem this way as it dried out. but does liner break down over time and become pourous?
I patched two holes that the dog's nails put in the pond while it was empty but see nothing else to fix. the water level is now below one of the patches so I feel confident that the patches are holding.

in three days, one of which was raining all day, the water level is half!
I feel like two steps forward and three back! ugh!

[Will]

That is upsetting. On the positive side, a leak that big will be hard to miss. That's a pretty cold comfort, though. I'm not aware of EPDM liner breaking down in less than 20 years, unless exposed to chemicals other than water.

Hope the leak is an easy fix when you find the darn thing.

[Meganne]

that is what I thought about the liner Will and this one is only 5 or 6 years old.
thanks, just needed a little conformation of that

[addy1]

bummer meganne, that is yucky after all the work you have put into it guess you need to wait and see where it stops then do the search

[Will]

Has it stopped yet?

[Meganne]

yes, the big part of the pond stops at the bottom lip of that pipe leading to the settling pond and the stettling pond stops just over the bottom drain about an inch

[Will]

So, could the leak be in the settling pond only, then? Sounds like it.

[Meganne]

monday I will dry and clean both connections and slather them and ajoining liner with marine sealant then cap the line connecting the two ponds and fill the lily pond to above the connection point if the water level stays for a few days I will then fill the settling pond and see if it holds. might not ever know which pond leaked but hopefully this will do the trick

[Will]

If you can cap the connection, just see if the settling pond has the leak. Be easier, probably. I'd have suggested that first, had I realized your setup better.

[Meganne]

oh I already filled the settling pond back up to the bottom of the pipe which connects the two and lost water so I know their is a leak in the bd of the settling pond but I dont know it the other is leaking as well so I am going to deal with both areas while there is no water in the ponds

[Will]

Roger that!

[addy1]

My honey calls me the caulking queen, that stuff will fix so many issues. I have used the marine sealant, it is tough once it dries.

[Meganne]

ok. I hope this is it, keep you fingers crossed for me!
this is out of the lily pond
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0162.jpg
into the selling pond
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0164.jpg
and I sealed around the settling pond BD also

[Will]

At least the white won't last very long. Hope it works!

[Meganne]

I dont care if it stays bone white at this point as long as I have sealed where ever that leak is!

[Kntry]

If this doesn't work, take the clamp off and put another piece of liner around the fitting, gob the silicone around it then put the clamp back and tighten it as tight as you can get it.

[Meganne]

fillin and testin ...keep your fingers crossed for me!!

[stroppy]

Fingers Crossed :)

[Will]

Yup, we're all covered up in X's here!

[addy1]

And? or is it still filling?

[Kntry]

Meg, call me and lets talk about it.

[Meganne]

just gonna pout a while............

[Will]

I'm guessing it still leaked. Can you determine the leak point?

[Meganne]

I am pretty sure it is the BD of the settling pond.
going to cap the connecting ppes of the two ponds and see if the lily pond holds on its own befor I dig up the corner of the settling pond....sigh

[Will]

No matter the result, I'd keep them capped off until you find the problem, to isolate the symptom. I wish you luck, sounds as if your construction will have a very ordealicious quality to it as well. I had a bad leak in a similar type drain, a "pipe boot" setup. I think my real problem was letting my 8 year old swim with wild abandon in there, I've got it sealed up well now, though, I think. Don't feel too bad, I've had multiple issues from using a scrap liner chunk that is just a tad too short for the hole it's in. Still working with that.

Probably would've helped if I had actually measured, rather than just hoped. You know how hope is with DIY stuff, you can hope in one hand, and shit in the other, and see which fills up first. Although I've had luck with just hope at times, usually. Gotta be more scientific myself, I know. I do wish you luck with this, luck that isn't all bad, anyway.

[Meganne]

ok been a couple few days and I have lost maybe a half inch, it is really dry and there is a small leak I have found in the stream were the water is wicking under a rock...I am for ever re adjusting that stream...lol! but this means the main pond is good...yeah. I have the skimmer running to the flower pot shower. keeping the leaves out real good but there is already a nice layer of green loose algea collecting on the pond bottom.
so next I will cap the connecting pipe on the inside of the settling pond to make sure it isnt trouble at this point of the run.

[Lilylady]

Sounds like progress :)

[Meganne]

ok, capped the conecting pipe to the inside of the settling pond and the main pond held water so the pipe between the two is good.
filled the settling pond and still ost water to below the connecting pipe.
so I dug out the corner to under the BD of the Settling pond, filled the settling pond....and it is dry under there! where is the water going???????
now I will leave the inside pipe capped and see how low the water goes, surely I didnt miss a tear in the liner! other than that I am out of ideas.
under settling chamber BD
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0259.jpg
I did get a little plumbing done...dry as a bone here!
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0233.jpg
and we wait....again.....
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0237.jpg

[addy1]

What a bummer, the leak has to show up sometime...........when it drains down and if you walk on it, does it feel squishy underfoot? in any once place

[Lilylady]

I have a small leak in my lily pond. Can't find it for nothing. It regularly drops the pond about 4 inches. So I only fill it at certain times. But I think I got crossed eyes from looking.

[Meganne]

ok it has dropped a good two inches since my last post! yikes you'd think I could see a wet area huh?,

[addy1]

Darn meganne, sounds like a tear in the liner. IF you find it try some of the gold label pond sealant, works underwater, in wet conditions.

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab168/missyjosey/internet%20pictures/B0wJUGEWkKGrHqZjIErF-enepBMbq8uhUgg.jpg

[Will]

I've used PL roof and flashing sealant to secure a patch with great success. That works underwater, as I did it while batting away curious fish.

[addy1]

I've used PL roof and flashing sealant to secure a patch with great success. That works underwater, as I did it while batting away curious fish.

I love that stuff, others have said the gold seal is better, I like the price of pl a lot better and it has always worked for me.

[Meganne]

the water seems to have stopped going down. it is lower than the top outlet and higher than the inlet from the main pond and BDrain
I have searched the water line for a hole in the liner and find only good liner.
I will check in the morning to see if it has gon any lower but I think it has leveled off

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0163.jpg

[Will]

Somewhere there would have to be your hole, unless there is a hole at that level in the BD pipe underground. If you don't see the hole, it's time to dig up pipes leading out of that pond.

[Meganne]

found it! the water went down a little more and got low enough for me to pul back the liner on the inside of the settleing pond at the connecting pipe to the main pond...bingo! sand soup!
now at least I got a starting point!
guess i will get the rest of the water out and remove that coupling clean the area and try again.
it was very hard for me to get that coupling on over the liner so apparently I lost the seal.
so althoug I am a bit frustarted that I have a leak at all I am relieved I finally found it!

[addy1]

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bet you feel good

[Will]

Aren't the most difficult ones ALWAYS the ones with a problem? I'm glad you found it!

[Meganne]

here is the problem
fighting with that rubber coupling I didnt get a good seal back here....
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0303.jpg

so I have put gobs of roofing sealant around the crease
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0310.jpg

carefully folded the liner back and run another srip of liner along the joint on this side with more sealant
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0311.jpg

clamped it directly behind the back edge of the rubber coupling
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0312.jpg

and then added another strip of liner with more gobs of roofing sealant
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0313.jpg

Geez I sure hope this works!

[tranquility]

it should work just fine...glad it was an easy fix....
Lawanna

[Will]

Jesus, woman, you're supporting PL all by yourself! Better not leak now, eh?

[Meganne]

lol! Will Steve looked at the pictures and said....
"that must have been a mess doing that! hope you wore gloves" rofl!

[Meganne]

got some plumbing done today, some of it still needs to be glued, and the barrels interiors need finishing and they need an overflow at the top for boiling clean.
but I an getting closer!!! painfully slow isnt it? lol!
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0315.jpg

[Will]

Wow, that plumbing looks complex for a lily pond! I sure didn't go all out with mine. At least, not yet...

[Meganne]

sweeeet! the 2 S&G filters are ready for filling!!!!
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0328.jpg

[addy1]

Nice work meganne! looks great

[Meganne]

thank you but, Chris apparently I need to adress the support of the lattice before rocks go in there....big sigh......

[addy1]

thank you but, Chris apparently I need to adress the support of the lattice before rocks go in there....big sigh......

Make a pvc frame. I did that for one of my filters, a few years back/

[Meganne]

So wonderful Tim/applianceGuy came by with a piece of latice he used for his S&G, much tighetr weave and the egg sized river stones wont fall through. using that to cut new grid out of and 4. 3 inch pvc legs it is solid! THAK YOU TIM!

we are up and running!
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0354.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0342.jpg
there is a good 4 inch draw down in the settling pond and way to much current for lilies so I am going to letting the hyachynth go wild in there
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0353.jpg
and the bog is coming along to, not quite so sad looking any more
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0355.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0356.jpg

[Will]

Looks great, Meg, so much cleaner looking than my in progress works. Looks like you're ahead of me now, at least in the nice looking edging department, at least. I'm trying to build a motorcycle driveway at the same time, so I'm falling behind. :sad0049::LaLaLa:

[Meganne]

potted up 5 lilies today salvaged from a couple buckets of water I dumped them all in, guess I'll know for sure in a few weeks which I potted.
got the cypress trees potted in pretty pots with no bottom so I can keep them full of water, hoping for knees!
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0382.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0386.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0388.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0380.jpg

[addy1]

Very nice meganne!

[Meganne]

I moved these two in today so so offically today it is no longer a lily pond, lol. no plants in the pond and the Brady showa and the omosako shiro didnt know what to do with all the new space!
moving them gave the ones in the koi pond more space for growing too.

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0459.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0455.jpg

[addy1]

Boy those are huge! nice looking meganne! congrats and getting them moved.

[Meganne]

just some pictures....

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0591.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0582.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0593.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0598.jpg

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0596.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0595.jpg

thinking of investing in a UV lite

[Will]

Looking pretty sharp, Meg. Think you're way ahead of me now.

[pskorf]

looking GREAT
wonder if the big koi will wreck havic on the waterlilies
I know this guy with sarassa"s they behave REALLY well with waterlilies

[Kntry]

I musta been asleep when I was back there. I don't remember that pond looking like that or being that big! Awesome!

The Shiro is looking great!

[Lilylady]

You have been working hard! It shows! Very nice!

[Meganne]

looking GREAT
wonder if the big koi will wreck havic on the waterlilies
I know this guy with sarassa"s they behave REALLY well with waterlilies

Paul I dont have any lilies in with the koi...well until today. I zip-tied a hardy lily with thick stems to a brick hoping perhaps the koi will leave it be being there is no pot to root in.
I know, I am wishing on a star! lol.


Sandy you never got past that thin bit up by the pavers and we were busy with koi!

Will I wish my lawn ws on par with yours! but it looks miles beter than it did this spring.

thank LouAnn, I am working on it

[GinRin]

Your settings look, serene, beautiful...lovely!
Can U tell me please what is knees? why do U want them? and why did U plant the ciprises in water?

[Will]

"Knees" are cypress root growths, when the cypress is planted in the water. They stick up above the water, little knobs of wood, pretty cool.

[addy1]

Nice tropical paradise! love it, plants sure do grow down here in florida, almost non stop.

[Kntry]

Cypress grow on dry land also but most Cypress are found in Cypress swamps.

[Meganne]

now those are some knees! witches' knees!
great picture Sandy, I was going to search for one but ya beat me!

Neli being in the water also makes the base of the tree trunk swell giving it an "aged" look.
I have not had anyone explain the reason why the roots peak up out of the water's surface like that and only heard of a few guesses like lack of oxygen???

[GinRin]

Oooooooooo! Got it! Never seen a cypress before...it looks so cool!
Thanks for the explanation! I did not know they grow in water...I have seen some on TV but did not know what they are...I was worried they will die...he he he!

[addy1]

I have some cypress knees that my brother in law cut out of the swamp in louisiana, really neat looking, they are sitting in our front room.

[Kntry]

The cut knees will last forever! They do take a long time to grow.


According to Betts (1943) knees serve as anchors as well as organs to supply oxygen to the roots. This was proven by other scientists like Schimper (1903) and Wells (1932) through certain experiments.

However, in some experiments where the knees were removed, the roots of these trees that dwell in swamps survived well. So ,some scientists concluded that these projections are meant for giving support to the plants as these trees tend to be weak in water.

[Meganne]

I got one return to the lily pond from the barrels done. I thought I would use this on the koi pond but Steve wanted it down on the lily pond and it works well.
now I just need to make another for the other return.
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0839.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0840.jpg
they are my Gossiping Mermaids
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0833.jpg

[Lilylady]

Cool!I like!

[Will]

That's really cool, Meg! Great job.

[Kntry]

Meg, that looks really nice! You are so talented.

[addy1]

That is so neat! You have such a creative mind! and good hands

[pskorf]

much better pics now i can see what is on end

very nice

[Meganne]

hey LouAnn what is this lily? it is a night bloomer and the most brilliant fushia pink...Anteres?

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0847.jpg

[Meganne]

much better pics now i can see what is on end

very nice

Paul I made another for the other return, if Shawna ca recieve pics on her phone I will text it to you .

this one is suposed to be a shell bt it is kinda deformed lik a blobby marshmellow!lol

[pskorf]

Paul I made another for the other return, if Shawna ca recieve pics on her phone I will text it to you .

this one is suposed to be a shell bt it is kinda deformed lik a blobby marshmellow!lol

i think this one shows a shell pretty good i just saw the 1 photo you posted elsewhere and could not see very well.
so no need to send shawna heck i could never see any picture very well on her phone.only photo she had was one you sent her of a sunset taken by you.so i am afraid t look at pictures from you on her phone.think she had that has her wall or whatever you call the phone picture on screen all the time

[GinRin]

I got one return to the lily pond from the barrels done. I thought I would use this on the koi pond but Steve wanted it down on the lily pond and it works well.
now I just need to make another for the other return.
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0839.jpg
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0840.jpg
they are my Gossiping Mermaids
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0833.jpg

Waw! Meg! I almost missed this...What it is made of? very nice!

[Lilylady]

hey LouAnn what is this lily? it is a night bloomer and the most brilliant fushia pink...Anteres?

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0847.jpg

Meg, Antares does not have reddish pads, I think you might have Jennifer Rebecca or a Red Flare clone. Pretty!

[Meganne]

is red flare a night bloomer? if so that is it.
I dont believe you've ever sent me a Jennifer Rebecca

[Lilylady]

Must be Red Flare. I bought it as Red Flare, but there are many clones out there, and many fanatics, so I just call it a clone. But it sure is pretty. Do you have a Blink?

[Meganne]

yes, you sent me a red flare so that must be it.

I have also right now a Charlen Stearn tied to a brick, 5 pads, lol
and a ga peach about 6 pads also on a brick...trying to see if the koi will leave them alone if ther is no mud/pot to root in.

I also have a Mrs walsh up in the little top pond at the head of the water fall blooming everyday for me.

no blink...but they smell good dont they!

[GinRin]

Meg,
How do U plant a lily on a brick? Sounds strange but interesting.

[Meganne]

just zip tied to a brick....
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_0857.jpg

[GinRin]

Thanks....Andit does well....Is there soil in the bottom or it just stays like that?

[Meganne]

no dirt, just sitting on linered pond bottom. could be why it isnt spreading much or blooming

[GinRin]

no dirt, just sitting on linered pond bottom. could be why it isnt spreading much or blooming
I was wondering about that too...I think my water in the filter in the last chamber is filtered so much that my hyacinth failed to grow. All died...

[Lilylady]

It won't grow well that waay unless you let the dirt and mulm accumulate around it. I know you won't do that.

[GinRin]

It won't grow well that waay unless you let the dirt and mulm accumulate around it. I know you won't do that.
There U are right!

[addy1]

I keep mine in kitty litter clay, but don't have koi so the fish leave them alone.

meganne, maybe make a floating lily holder, I used pvc, put holes in the edge of the oil pan, tied it with wire so it hung around 2 feet down maybe 18 inches didn't measure.

You could make it with some screen around the pot tied up to the pvc the leaves etc grow up the screen and out. I would still tie the pot, I did just screen and the pot tended to tip in the screening. I used 2 inch pvc it kept the lilies up really nicely.

[Meganne]

thinking...if they leave the folage alone I could pot the ilies in an oil pan and then cover tightly with bird netting to simple keep the koi out of the oil pan and clay.
hmmmmm.?

[Will]

thinking...if they leave the folage alone I could pot the ilies in an oil pan and then cover tightly with bird netting to simple keep the koi out of the oil pan and clay.
hmmmmm.?
Good luck with that. I think mine would tear it apart and probably scrape themselves up in the process.

[addy1]

This is my floater for the tropical, not fish proof, just wanted the plant in the deep end. Pot held on with some wire. Meganne if you put net under the pot and up over the pvc it might protect them from the koi. My fish ignore the plants.

The hardies are heavy enough they sink the pvc, which is what I want, but it is not that bad floating. Paint it with spray hard plastic paint.

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab168/missyjosey/internet%20pictures/DSC04134.jpg

[pskorf]

still know a guy with sarassa that leave the waterlilies alone

[Meganne]

hey Paul! I know that same guy!

[Meganne]

Good luck with that. I think mine would tear it apart and probably scrape themselves up in the process.

yes that seems to be the rule..if it is in the pond the koi will figure out a way to hurt themselves on it!

[Meganne]

ok...I gave up, pulled the lilies out. the ones in pots get rooted up. the ones bare rooted tied to a brick dont have the nutrients they get when they are potted and although left alone by the fish they do not thrive at all.

so now the settling pond befor the filters has a few lilies in it, the top pond has two lilies and some saw grass, and the main pond has three koi 24"-26" and no plants.
water is very green, so I will be adding uv eventually as I would like to see my fish!

[addy1]

darn.......go back to gold fish lol.............

[GinRin]

I like Addy idea...I was planing to use shade cloth under the pot and going up to a large hoop made from a rounded pipe...like a circle.

[pskorf]

darn.......go back to gold fish lol.............

Sarassa
i know a guy

[Kntry]

Sorry it didn't work. Keep plugging away, you'll get it right!

[pskorf]

the koi will a problem with the plants
i would put them back in reg pond and keep up water changes in koi pond.

just seems first year alot of battles with green water with a first year liner then second year seems like things start getting mature and magic happens.

[Will]

You know, not to be argumentative, but I think if your liner biofilm and algae is the deciding factor in clearing your pond, then more biological filtration is needed.

[Meganne]

ok, the settling pond may in time become a filter pitt........

[Meganne]

uv....think I need one?

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_2048_zpscab760d2.jpg (http://s813.photobucket.com/user/Meganne_photos/media/lily%20pond/IMG_2048_zpscab760d2.jpg.html)

in the mean time the flush out bog area is coming to life
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_2069_zpsefd802b2.jpg (http://s813.photobucket.com/user/Meganne_photos/media/lily%20pond/IMG_2069_zpsefd802b2.jpg.html)
as is the stream....
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_2067_zpsa694c040.jpg (http://s813.photobucket.com/user/Meganne_photos/media/lily%20pond/IMG_2067_zpsa694c040.jpg.html)

[Will]

Meg, you must be pulling weeds like crazy! I struggle with weeds terribly in my bog areas.

[Meganne]

the weeds got a good clean out a week ago. If I keep a check on them they don't get to out of hand and a claw tool helps! lol
I am patiently waiting for the bog plants to over run them....one day....maybe?

[Kntry]

Are those Gerber Daisies?

[Appliance Guy]

I'd like to point out that Meg's pond is a good example of a 'good' green water. There is a difference between a 'good' green pond- that is a healthy pond that is simply green; versus an unhealthy pond that is green. I can tell cause the lack of foam, lack of sllime algae, lack of trapped gas bubbles on the sidewalls, the water in the waterfall area looks clean other than than being green, AND the water surface has a gloss to it.

Yep- this is a good green... But if it's gotta go, it's gotta go... EA 55w UV...

Personally I would love to see this pond clear- it's looking really good Meg!!! (PS- how are the bees????)

[Meganne]

! thanks fro the kind comments Tim. there are some DOCs but not much, I have only three 24-26 inch koi in this pond.
I don't care if the water is green but this is ridiculous!
I need some info on that blower you have to boil you S&Gs clean. the shop vac does a lousy job.
I got this plumbed in and running two days ago.....thank you Steve/Birdman for advice and help
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_2047_zps94168c04.jpg (http://s813.photobucket.com/user/Meganne_photos/media/lily%20pond/IMG_2047_zps94168c04.jpg.html)

[Meganne]

Are those Gerber Daisies?

no but I think they are very similar to Indian Paintbrush.

[Appliance Guy]

Meganne- I use a Max air blower that is common to the spa world... I think a 1hp or 1.5 hp would do ya fine. I blast the hell out of my S/G so with the 1.5 you can pinch back a bit.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZ3ErwZZt77tIcmHWtLaJOSPtB1tCuY qo4870ykFo7KKlUcIyJfw

[ellisr63]

! thanks fro the kind comments Tim. there are some DOCs but not much, I have only three 24-26 inch koi in this pond.
I don't care if the water is green but this is ridiculous!
I need some info on that blower you have to boil you S&Gs clean. the shop vac does a lousy job.
I got this plumbed in and running two days ago.....thank you Steve/Birdman for advice and help
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/IMG_2047_zps94168c04.jpg (http://s813.photobucket.com/user/Meganne_photos/media/lily%20pond/IMG_2047_zps94168c04.jpg.html)

I am using a Rigid 2hp shop vac on my 400 gallon S&G and it worked fine, plus I got it on sale for I think it was $59.

[Will]

I use a Shop Vac hanger style 2HP, cost me $30 - 10% military discount at Lowes. Works great with 1 1/4" risers.

[Meganne]

my problem with the shop vac is the vac hose wasn't getting a tight connection with the coupling at the top of the pipe used for the clean out, more air leaked than blew.
but I think I might have that sorted now, after things set I will give it a go wed. when I amm off work and have time to mess with it.
I have been using steve's compressed dive tanks and though they blow STRONG, they are a pain to deal with too, so the barrels need a good flushing that is certain!!

on a good note, though the water isn't clear yet it is clear enough to see the fish!!!! yippeeeeee!

[Will]

You can just figure out the size pipe that your vac hose fits snugly into, and add a bushing to reduce to needed size. I use 1" pipe for my air cleaning manifolds, and an 1 1/4" X 1" bushing to give me a larger opening for the hose. If I used a spa blower, I'd be toting it all over the place right now. Maybe I'll go that way when I complete my build, but I'll still use my cheap shop vac for QT and goldfish ponds and hospital tank.

[ellisr63]

I errored on my shop vac specs... it is a 5hp Rigid Shop Vac.

[Will]

I'm glad to hear that. I was wondering how a 2 HP could do a decent job on that big filter you have.:whistle:

[Meganne]

I don't know what shop vac we have but it is old and sounds ill. I did get a good seal in the couplings by glueing a strip of rubber in them, still the shop vac was not strong enough to do much but gently bubble through the gravel. so I rigged up my leaf blower, not much better.....ugh!!
so I drug the dive tank out there and with 3300 psi blew the heck out of them! this is a royal pain in the butt though. sigh...
I thought for sure the leaf blower would work. is a 5hp Rigid Shop Vac stronger than a leaf blower for the yard?

[ellisr63]

I don't know what shop vac we have but it is old and sounds ill. I did get a good seal in the couplings by glueing a strip of rubber in them, still the shop vac was not strong enough to do much but gently bubble through the gravel. so I rigged up my leaf blower, not much better.....ugh!!
so I drug the dive tank out there and with 3300 psi blew the heck out of them! this is a royal pain in the butt though. sigh...
I thought for sure the leaf blower would work. is a 5hp Rigid Shop Vac stronger than a leaf blower for the yard? I don't know... The one I have has a detachable part that is a leaf blower and that is what I used. Buy it and try it out... If it doesn't work out for you take it back.

[Meganne]

Meganne- I use a Max air blower that is common to the spa world... I think a 1hp or 1.5 hp would do ya fine. I blast the hell out of my S/G so with the 1.5 you can pinch back a bit.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZ3ErwZZt77tIcmHWtLaJOSPtB1tCuY qo4870ykFo7KKlUcIyJfw


my sweetheart ordered one of these for me today

[addy1]

sweet!

[Meganne]

well it has taken about a week but the algae is all dead, now to get it out of the pond! so I have been doing water changes. I also find it is clogging both leaf baskets before the pumps which is a good way to get it out. and the top pond collects a lot of it so when I dump that it is helping to. I can see the koi! and I can see the bottom drain plumbing which runs on top of the liner.

[Meganne]

after some thought and input from Steve(who REALLY wants lilies in the pond) I am giving it one more try.
what I have found is the koi don't eat the lilies as much as they root them up and out of the pots and then shred them looking for something to eat, then they dig in the pot till it is empty of the potting material as well.
I tried attaching lilies to bricks to sit on the pond bottom bare rooted, the ki leave them alone but the lilies do not thrive with out a substraight to grow in.
so in a final attempt...
I have potted the lilies up in oil drip pans with clay topped with gravel, then I covered the pan with bird netting securing it with two large rubber bands. I made sure to tug the netting across the pan nice and tight. I am hoping the netting keeps the koi out of the pan while allowing the lilies to grow through.
while I was at it I re potted my saw grass.

[Will]

I have misgivings about that lily idea working, but I sure hope it does. For the algae, I have used a cheap intek pool paper filter. You can just attach a fitting to make it attach anywhere to filtration, it's just temporary. But that paper filter will clog up fast, and pull all sorts of stuff out of the water that even an S&G would miss. Nice to polish the water when it's messy or has to look extra good.

[Meganne]

I may go look at those Will, thanks
as far as the lilies, the koi left them have alone so far, course it has only been one day lol

[pskorf]

what aboit switching the koi back to main pond and placing the longfins in the lily pond?
seems some people say longfin do not bother the water lilies like koi?????
esp since water is clearing you will have the longfins with more romm to stretch out the fins and show them off more

[Meganne]

yes Paul, the LFs will go in there when they get a little bigger. the showa and Ochiba stay but the shiro will go back in the koi pond mot likely.
well see! lol, musical ponds!

[Lilylady]

I will cross my fingers for you Meg. Maybe your koi are not as big a buttheads as mine are. I hope it works.

[Will]

Maybe your koi are not as big a buttheads as mine are.:sarcastic:

[GardenGimp]

I saw something in a koi pond on this past weekend pond tour, they have lilies potted into what looked like one of the Aquatic Eco 28x13 tubs. It was sitting on a pedestal right at the edge of the pond, and the important thing is that the outer edges of the tub were only about 1" to 2" below the pond water level. Not enough water clearance for a koi to get into easily, so they tend to leave the pots alone.

[Meganne]

but how well were the lilies growing at that shallow depth?

today I have a small scattering of stones around the pots, but the bird netting is still on them and the pots are not rooted through. I think someone has managed to suck up some stones trying to root but cant quite get in the pot. hmmmm?
AND I can see the bottom of the pond!!!!! scooped a few leaves but there were not many.

[Kntry]

I've seen my koi move big chunks of road gravel from the pot and spit them on the pond bottom.

[Will]

I've seen my koi move big chunks of road gravel from the pot and spit them on the pond bottom.
By all means, DON'T CHALLENGE THEM! :popcorn:

[Meganne]

it took three week, guess that tells you how thick the algae in the pond was, but the pond water is now quite clear. so glad to see the koi again.
all the 8(?)goldfish and the two small koi that were originally in the pond are MIA, I recently removed a very large water snake and am thinking they are why it was so big...
I found a silver dollar sized turtle in there and left it for now, it is darn cute.
the lilieas are growing and have been left pretty much alone, though someone is sucking the smaller stones thorugh the bird netting. I cleaned up the few pebbles on the pond bottom and a handful of leaves. it took a good week for all the dead algae to get removedit settled quite well in the small top pond. that plus a bunch of water changes has help things alot

[addy1]

Looking good there! I have yet to see a water snake, we do have king snakes here, big ones.

[Lilylady]

I have found 2 shed skins in the past week, but no sign of the culprits.