The Bomb

[bill d.]

Pure Pond Bomb bacteria ball...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKeya3FikiY

Now available in the US. From the manufacturer;

PURE Pond Bomb is a fast acting, concentrated version of the Award Winning PURE Pond. PURE Pond Bomb is ideal for use in Koi ponds, ornamental ponds, self contained water features or ponds which do not have conventional filtration, to achieve crystal clear, healthy water.

Inside the PURE Pond Bomb there is a unique combination of friendly bacteria and enzymes, which get to work as soon as the ball hits the water to clean up organic waste and break down the ammonia and nitrite to leave your pond crystal clear and healthy.

[Appliance Guy]

Hope I'm not the only one, but it's pretty sad that modern Koi keepers allow this misinformation and predation to persist. And it is preying on ignorance. "a unique combination of friendly bacteria and enzymes, which get to work as soon as the ball hits the water to clean up organic waste and break down the ammonia and nitrite to leave your pond crystal clear and healthy." Really? Such a shame...

Pure Pond Bomb. Yep. The name sums it up precisely.
:nonono:

Bill, can you elaborate on this product you shared with us. What's your experience with it? What is in it? What is different about this product. Convince me that I need this product. After all, you are promoting aren't you?

[Kntry]

Tim, it goes back to basics. If you have enough filtration, low stocking levels and do regular maintenance, there is no need for "chemicals or voodoo"!

If you don't have this, there's no amount of "stuff" you can add to the pond to cure the problem.

[koikeepr]

I used the standard Pure Pond beads out of sheer curiosity last year (I confess I am not a believer in these products), and I noticed no difference whatsoever.

[ricshaw]

Tim, it goes back to basics. If you have enough filtration, low stocking levels and do regular maintenance, there is no need for "chemicals or voodoo"!
If you don't have this, there's no amount of "stuff" you can add to the pond to cure the problem.

There is a market for products for people who do not have enough filtration, high stocking levels, and have not done regular maintenance.

Remember the average ponder thinks of (understands) only mechanical and chemical filtration.

[ricshaw]

Hope I'm not the only one, but it's pretty sad that modern Koi keepers allow this misinformation and predation to persist. And it is preying on ignorance. "a unique combination of friendly bacteria and enzymes, which get to work as soon as the ball hits the water to clean up organic waste and break down the ammonia and nitrite to leave your pond crystal clear and healthy." Really? Such a shame...
Pure Pond Bomb. Yep. The name sums it up precisely.
:nonono:
Bill, can you elaborate on this product you shared with us. What's your experience with it? What is in it? What is different about this product. Convince me that I need this product. After all, you are promoting aren't you?

Tim,

As you know, I am a big fan of more biological filtration and think bacteria additives are a band aid for lack of enough filtration.

I am also a fan of businesses like Mystic Koi (http://www.mystickoi.com/) and Evolution Aqua (http://www.evolutionaqua.com), the maker of Pure Pond Bomb.
They have done a lot for the Koi community. They also cater to the ponders "who do not have enough filtration, high stocking levels, and have not done regular maintenance".

I had the same knee-jerk reaction you did when I first saw this product, but like other bacteria additives, they may work for some people like they did for a Pond Forum moderator recently.

In all fairness, bill d said; "PURE Pond Bomb is ideal for use in Koi ponds, ornamental ponds, self contained water features or ponds which do not have conventional filtration" and YOU and I have not tested it.

[Appliance Guy]

I hear ya Richard. Maybe I can prove my case. I have looked for everything I could find regarding the product. Evolution Aqua is the distributor and their site has the most information about the product. http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/PURE_POND_Bomb.html

In all fairness, bill d quoted directly from EA site. Not his words. http://evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/PURE_POND_Bomb.html

I've yet see any real information anywhere regarding the product. When you look at EA's site, you'll see that nearly all of their products have good, detailed information. Many with specifications and guaranteed analysis. Pure Pond Bombs as no informative information, imo. I see no species name of the bacteria or enzymes. "Inside the PURE Pond Bomb there is a unique combination of friendly bacteria and enzymes, which get to work as soon as the ball hits the water to clean up organic waste and break down the ammonia and nitrite to leave your pond crystal clear and healthy." Unique combination, huh.

Award winning- "At the AQUA 2010 Show in October 2010, Evolution Aqua’s Pure Pond was awarded the ‘Best Water Gardening Product of the Year.’ The team of judges voted unanimously in favour of Pure Pond over some fantastic products. They commented that Pure Pond was a “Unique, innovative product that had clear graphics for ease of use and are value for money.” "

I'm a big fan of EA products- I own Cetus, Aqua UV 55, and 2 Evo pumps. That's why I had such a 'knee jerk' reaction to this. Not only am I skeptical of ANY product that does not clearly describe the ingredients of their product, I'm even more skeptical when the process of how it even works is explained. I've looked at all the vids and researched this before I took a viewpoint. Nothin but slick advertisement with useless wording like "unique" and "innovative". Great, now why is this unique and what was the innovation. Putting a 'bacteria in a bottle' in a cute gel ball means nothing to me. Have you seen the video? It's terrible, imo. A video of a hand dropping a gel ball in a pond does not make me want to buy the product. (The koi were nice though!)

Like I said, I'm a fan of EA products. I may have even tried this product if it were promoted better. Seems like it targets unsuspecting begginers, which it does. That's why I'm so surprised at EA not targeting me. If I were convinced that this product actually works, I'd spend the money on it monthly. And I guarantee you that I spend more money on my pond than the average ponder. Especially, when there are similar looking products out there. How should EA have captured my money? Easy answer- like they do with their other products they have sold me, plenty of factual, proven secifications and a host of testamonials. But I really don't think they are trying to capture my dollar.

I suspect we're gonna see both satisfaction and dis-satisfied customers. Just like all products. So for now, I'm a skeptic that would need a lot of convincing to overturn my convictions. My greater concern is not me at all. I propose that products like this can be misinterperated by new ponders as being any substitution for proper pond fundementals. This site is very heavy with beginning ponders and I want them to know that while this product may has it's place in ponding, they should educate themselves on the use of it.

[ricshaw]

I've yet see any real information anywhere regarding the product. When you look at EA's site, you'll see that nearly all of their products have good, detailed information. Many with specifications and guaranteed analysis. Pure Pond Bombs as no informative information, imo. I see no species name of the bacteria or enzymes. "Inside the PURE Pond Bomb there is a unique combination of friendly bacteria and enzymes, which get to work as soon as the ball hits the water to clean up organic waste and break down the ammonia and nitrite to leave your pond crystal clear and healthy." Unique combination, huh.


I did a SEARCH for EA Pure Pond balls ingredients and found this comment from an individual; "why can't we find a recipe of our own to share on here...and save ourselves a small fortune...?"

Companies do not like to give away their ingredients if they don't have to.

[ricshaw]

I'm a big fan of EA products- I own Cetus, Aqua UV 55, and 2 Evo pumps. That's why I had such a 'knee jerk' reaction to this. Not only am I skeptical of ANY product that does not clearly describe the ingredients of their product, I'm even more skeptical when the process of how it even works is explained. I've looked at all the vids and researched this before I took a viewpoint. Nothin but slick advertisement with useless wording like "unique" and "innovative". Great, now why is this unique and what was the innovation. Putting a 'bacteria in a bottle' in a cute gel ball means nothing to me. Have you seen the video? It's terrible, imo. A video of a hand dropping a gel ball in a pond does not make me want to buy the product.



Yes, I have seen the video.

I was around when the first "bacteria in a bottle" was introduced to the Koi hobby. The man responsible was a member and former president of one of the local Koi clubs I belong to.

I was a skeptic and had knee jerk reactions back then like you are having now.

I can tell you that there is a "trick" to storing beneficial bacteria in a bottle. It was a secret 30 years ago and is a secret now. Putting bacteria in a time-release ball is just an evolution to this type of product.

Have you seen this video?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoHWEFDYWOE

[bill d.]

Whoa... Apologies to all concerned!

Kind Regards,
Bill

[Will]

Slick video. Has no information whatsoever, though. A repeated "Have You Tried It Yet?", as if they assume that you'll use it, given enough time.

I'm open to new ideas and products, but EA's promotion of this product seems to verify that there is little value to it. It is a little disappointing to see from EA, but they've got to pay the bills, too, I guess.


Whoa... Apologies to all concerned

Bill, are you going to defend the product? Seems we have plenty of people, myself included, to contest EA's claims here. I'm not hearing from anyone in support of the product, though.

[ricshaw]

Like I said; "Bacteria in a bottle" has been around for 30 years and EA's time-release ball is just an evolution to this type of product.
I have not tried EA's Pure Pond (http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/Pure_Pond.html) The Bomb, but I have used other beneficial bacteria pond products. It has been my experience that they are not a substitute for better biological filtration.
I think it is a little harsh to say; There is little value to these type of products. Many people find a use for these "bacteria" products. They seem to work for some people including a Pond Forum moderator.
I checked Bill's Pure Pond post on KP and there is support for this product.

Interesting EA says in the Nexus 210/310 Filtration System manual HOW TO GET THE BEST FROM YOUR NEXUS FILTER; "Take a look of our new Pure Pond bacteria gel balls. With over 8,000,000,000 bacteria per Litre of Pure Pond Balls, your pond will shine, especially if you add them monthly into the Kaldnes Moving bed. The Pure Pond balls are made from a biodegradable polymer, and crammed full of bacteria that are slowly released when they are needed most. When you introduce the Pure Pond balls into the biological chamber of your Nexus, they become one with moving bed, agitating alongside the K1 media, just waiting to smooth out the peaks and troughs of the Ammonia/Nitrite cycle. Contact your Nexus dealer to find out more. Getting the most from your Nexus has never been easier."

Do I think that Pure Pond balls, as described above, may be beneficial? Yes.
Do I think that EA makes money from the sale of Pure Pond balls? Yes.
Do I think that Pure Pond balls are a necessary monthly addition to a Nexus filtration system? No.

Bill does not need to defend this product. EA would be the source for claims on this product. I bet that EA has tested this product in the lab.

[bill d.]

Bill, are you going to defend the product?

Right... I am interested in hearing views on the product, and reporting findings back to all of you. But to be honest, I am not here to defend anything. Perhaps I am reading more into this than there is?

Just to be clear, I wish to again apologize - I made a mistake and posted our dumb little video without permission here. After I was notified, I actually thought the post was to be deleted by the admins, and so only today found that it was still here!

So, if the admins have no problem I am willing to provide feedback, and answer questions where I can.

We've done some non-scientific testing of the Pure products, and have been requesting feedback from each and every customer that has tried it. And so I am willing to share these results if anyone is interested - "a host of testimonials" if you will (both good and/or indifferent). Simply ask and I will share.

I can't give any info on "species name of the bacteria or enzymes", as this is proprietary. I can tell you that EA has been working with a laboratory group for many years developing the product. I can remember at least 3 or 4 years ago (perhaps longer?) having the conversation with EA about the development of Pure Bio, so this is something they have put a lot of time and effort into.


What's your experience with it?
As you know, EA is located in the UK and so we here in the US are always behind on getting our hands on these new products. And, because of the economics of importing, we always take on only small amounts to begin. This allows us an opportunity to evaluate any new product before we commit to quantity orders. Our first experience with Pure was shortly after we brought in a large quantity of koi from the fall harvest. We had moved koi around to make room for this new shipment, and so the bio had slowed down considerably on one tank in particular (nitrite readings kept rising). Not a problem, we check the water daily and make adjustment as necessary... typical stuff (water changes, salt, etc) However, I have a new product! We added the Pure media according to the dosing volume, and found that the nitrite reading dropped significantly within a few days. Again, not scientific, but we saw results much faster than we had historically seen. Often after adding a mass of koi, the water can go a little hazy as well. And so we were also surprised by the increase in clarity of the pond in very short order. Having said all that, we don't use Pure on a regular basis in any of our ponds. Our display and retail ponds are well designed, and run without the need for bacteria/enzyme treatments of any sort (aside from any sudden load increase). Further, we don't "market" the product to our customers that have stable, well designed ponds. A a side note - "most" customers that tried the product found similar result. Once word got out, this initial batch sold quickly. And since then, we've had to scramble to keep product in stock... even doing costly air shipments.


What is in it?
Don't know... they won't tell me. However, I completely understand why this is so!


What is different about this product.
I don't have anything specific I can tell you other than what I've been told. That being that EA and their partners spent an inordinate amount of time researching bacteria species. A complex range that is much more involved than the standard model we are all familiar with. This, I am told, is what make the product "unique" - meaning that no other company offers it (and again, hence the proprietary nature of the product).


Convince me that I need this product.
No need... I actually don't think you do!

Kind Regards,
Bill

[bill d.]

Bill does not need to defend this product. EA would be the source for claims on this product. I bet that EA has tested this product in the lab.

Thanks for the kind words!

[Will]

Bill, I am by no means criticizing you for selling the product. I'm often curious about this type of product, as I move around ponds and set up new ones several times a year.

Sometimes in this hobby, scientific evidence is pretty hard to come by. You've nothing to apologize for, you're just doing your job selling a product. The anecdotal evidence you've observed is usually all we get to go on, so it has value, it would be great if you would share it. Like I said, there are plenty of people who say it is snake oil, I'd be very interested in hearing from those who support it, get a bit more of a balanced consensus.

I know there have been developments in this field, but I've never gotten my mind around aerobic bacteria in a bottle. Perhaps someone could explain the concept to me?

[ricshaw]

I know there have been developments in this field, but I've never gotten my mind around aerobic bacteria in a bottle. Perhaps someone could explain the concept to me?


Originally posted by ricshaw:

I was around when the first "bacteria in a bottle" was introduced to the Koi hobby. The man responsible was a member and former president of one of the local Koi clubs I belong to.
I can tell you that there is a "trick" to storing beneficial bacteria in a bottle. It was a secret 30 years ago and is a secret now.



That is the same question I had and asked 30 years ago. The man who was the first to market "bacteria in a bottle" would not tell us... proprietary information.

From what I have learned, the products contain special strains of bacteria in a stabilizer and enzymes that feeds the bacteria to make it grow.

[Will]

Yes, that's what I've heard. That lack of explanation smells suspiciously like the South end of a Northbound cow.

[ricshaw]

I might add that the man, 30 years ago, would tell us (club members) how he maintained the water quality in the unfiltered man made lakes that were in the landscape in the gated mobile home park where he lived with his "bugs in the bottle" (his words).

When he moved to the mobile home park, the lakes were rid of algae by the use of copper algaecides (bluestone). He told the park managers he could control the algae AND have Koi in the lakes. The bluestoning of the lakes killed all fish.

I once caught him in his garage with 5 gallon buckets (with air stones) full of foaming concoction. He only admitted that the buckets contained pond water and his "bugs in the bottle" which he was increasing the bacteria count before dumping it into the lakes. In other words, what he was doing was decreasing the number of "bottles" he needed for such a large volume of lake water. I suspect that he may have seeded the water in the buckets with ammonia.

I also saw several large bags of Principe 80 in his garage. Later I checked and found out that Principe 80 contained Simazine and is used for weed control in agriculture. I contacted the chemical manufacturer and asked them if Principe 80 could be used to control algae. They wrote me a nice letter back and said that no Principe 80 could not be used for algae control, but another product (which contained the same ingredient) could be used for algae control. It all had to do with packaging and EPA regulations. I found out that Simazine was known by some in the aquarium and aquaculture trade for algae control (http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/simazine.html). I think Simazine has been outlawed in the U.S. (for environmental concerns) by the EPA.

[Appliance Guy]

bill d- no need to apologize nor need to defend anything. I feel Will's intention was a simple dialog as rebuttal. My intention is to keep the dialog open and eductional. In my years in business I have learned that an educated customer is a purchasing customer. In fact, a line I use in my repair business is, "I don't care if you get it repaired or not. My goal is to inform you so you can make an educated decision." I let them know what is involved and I give them my honest assesment based on several conditions. I know that I cannot make them repair it or not repair it. The best I can can do for them and me is have them educated. So, I do wish to be educated on Pure Pond Bomb. Even if I choose not to use it, I want to know that I am informed on the matter and am making an educated decision.

I feel that EA has done a terrible marketing campaign promoting there product. They should have known that they face an uphill battle with this type of product. It's a market full of snke-oils and false claims, and why not distance from that as far as possible? But they didn't. IMO, the video is terrible and the information provided is sub-par. So sub-par that EA has actually done themselves a dis-service by such promotion. Now they're facing an even greater challenge. I know that if I had unlocked a monster of a product, I would have promoted heavily in the higher end market and let the product work it's way down to the average consumer. I can go to any local chain store and by some for of bacteria in a bottle stuff. Walmart, Kmart, Petco, Petland, etc. they all have some form of what most people consider this type of product. So, how should EA have seperated themselves from the masses? Information. I understand about proprietary information. But that is such a weak copout that it shows ignorance on their part.And frankly, it's an assualt on the consumers intellegence. That's what I meant by 'letting this continue' in my earlier post. If you're gonna plead 'unique combination of proprietary compounds' BS than atleast tell me why the dang product is different. At least tell me the fudementals of the product. But again, EA dropped the ball on this. The name alone makes me think it's a shady product, 'Pure Pond Bomb'. Is that really the best they could do? Image means a lot to both savvy and ignorant consumers. It's a fine line with how best to promote the product. Too cheesy and lack of info doesn't capture a higher end market, yet, too much info (specifically scientic info) leads the average consumer confused. So, EA should have really looked into their target market. I know that if I was prompted to use the product by my mentors and respected peers in the industry, than I would be a great candidate for the product, as I would consume it regularly. However, they are not trying to sell this to me. They are selling to the casual consumer that will use it once maybe twice. You see, there a lot more of them types than my types. I'd say that less than 1% of pond goods sold reaches a higher end hobbyist like me. The vast marjority are small, casual ponders with low life expectancy in the hobby, probably less tha five yrears.

Business wise I think EA would have been better served by promoting PPB amongst existing customers rather than capuring new customers. I have a Cetus, A Evo 55 UV and 2 Evo pumps- why not try to get me hooked on their PPB's? I'd think I'd be a target candidate. Give EA product distributors cases of the stuff to give to customers like me.

I guess maybe I'm a skeptic to these types of products. But frankly, I don't care about me, because I know I'll research before purchase. It's the new ponders that need the education. To capture a consumer is easy. To capture a repeat consumer takes a better product and better stategy.

A question that lingers in my head is that if I could ask EA just one question it be, "What makes this product different from competing products?"

Peace to all-

Tim

[ricshaw]

Yes, that's what I've heard. That lack of explanation smells suspiciously like the South end of a Northbound cow.

Have you ever tried to get the ingredients in Coca-Cola or the Colonel's 11 herbs spice recipe for chicken?

[ricshaw]

I feel that EA has done a terrible marketing campaign promoting there product. They should have known that they face an uphill battle with this type of product. It's a market full of snke-oils and false claims, and why not distance from that as far as possible?


I disagree. I think the reason these products are made is because they sell and have repeat buyers.



A question that lingers in my head is that if I could ask EA just one question it be, "What makes this product different from competing products?"


ricshaw says "gel balls".

Remember that EA markets their Pure Pond balls (http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/Pure_Pond.html) for their Nexus Filter System and their new Pure Bond Bomb (http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/PURE_POND_Bomb.html) for Koi ponds, ornamental ponds, self contained water features or ponds which do not have conventional filtration.

[Appliance Guy]

Precisely Richard. It's not whether the product is good or not, it's whether it sells enough! WalMart sells a bunch of Ol'Roy dog food. That doesn't mean it's a good, nutritional product. It simply means it sells. Maybe EA is not looking for a good product, maybe they're looking for a SELLABLE product. And more importantly, a CONSUMABLE SELLABLE product. They'll only sell me one, maybe two Cetus, but they can sell a bunch of bombs as they are a consumable product.

A story; At a publishing ceremony, a well known author tells her guest, "I can't believe he is on the Best Seller list. The bufoon couldn't pen a great novel, like I have." The guest, not wanting to insult says, "They didn't say Best Author, they said 'Best Seller.'"

You see, there is a difference.

[ricshaw]

Moving on...

I have gotten the impression by some people on this forum that any biological detritus is bad and dangerous in a pond system.

I am not suggesting that detritus does not need to be periodically removed from a pond system.

I remember years ago when my friend was setting up his new tropical fish store. All the freshwater tanks were connected to one big filtration system.

To jump start the filtration system he asked a Koi hobbyist friend to bring in a bucket with the detritus from his Koi pond biological filter.

I was there when when he proceeded to dump a little of the foul water from the bucket into each of the aquarium tanks in the system.

That was years ago and I doubt that he still does it that way now.

[Appliance Guy]

I remember when there were rotary phones and pay phones. What does that have anything to do with modern cellular technology? Nothing.

Is there any rebuttal to this product? Can anyone provide anything more than speculation and guesses? I'd love to hear some scientific backing or hell, I'd like to know if anyone other than Lisa has even tried this product. She gave her review and it was inconclusive. Anyone else?

Appliance Guy says this product is nothing more than snakeoil and should be considered as such until proven otherwise. :big smile:

Ricshaw- I once was at a collectors facility in the FL Keys. He had just set up a new system and wanted to 'Spike it' with ammonia. So he peed in it! Kinda makes me wonder if we've even progressed any. Seems a rudementary approach, but biolgically it makes sense to me. Kind of a wierd one.

[whodatkoi]

What EA is going after is that, by going "slow release" and new packaging, it increases profit margin. Just look at the slow release fertilizers sold by Miracle Growth or Osmocote, 1kg for $12, compared to 40lb bag of 13-13-13 sold at half of the price.

What EA needs to do is up the antic by having a celebrity endorses it. I bet they can increase the price 10 folds.

Sorry, Bill, you got roughed up a little here. Tough crowd.

[Kntry]

I don't think anyone was directing comments at Bill. Sorry it appeared that way. It was directed at the product.

I'm far from a scientist but I just don't understand how oxygen needing bacteria can survive in an airless bottle to miraculously come alive when they "hit the filtration system". Just doesn't make sense.

[Will]

It would make sense if they had a very limited shelf life and were stored at sub freezing temperatures. Perhaps there is a biologist out there who could explain this in true detail. Paul, is this even possible in your scientific opinion?

[ricshaw]

I'm far from a scientist but I just don't understand how oxygen needing bacteria can survive in an airless bottle to miraculously come alive when they "hit the filtration system". Just doesn't make sense.


Apparently there are certain strains of bacteria that can lay dormant under certain conditions. When the bacteria and enzymes are released into the pond the bacteria become active.

The original bacteria in the bottle DID NOT have a shelf life date which was a problem. There was also a problem if you tried to keep a half used bottle very long. The oxygen and contamination in the bottle would set it off and kill the bacteria.

I use to be a skeptic like Tim. I could not understand how aerobic bacteria could survive in a bottle. But, as more and more products appeared and I heard testimonials about some people experiences, I know now that there is a place for products like this. Just not a substitute for biological filtration. When a big aquaculture industry supplier Fritz (http://www.fritzaquatics.com/) came out with their FritzZyme, I figured there was more to this than I understood.


The following claims will not change the hard-core skeptic's mind:

University of Nevada FritzZyme Study (http://www.fritzaquatics.com/news.php?id=8)
"The University of Nevada, Las Vegas recently conducted a study to determine the species and viability of the nitrifying bacteria in Fritz’s freshwater nitrifying bacteria product. They confirmed the activity of nitrifying bacteria based on ammonia and nitrite oxidation. Sequencing data showed the presence of Ammonia-oxidizing and Nitrite-Oxidizing bacteria in FritzzymeA study by the University of Nevada, Las Vegas recently conducted a study to determine the species and viability of the nitrifying bacteria in Fritz’s freshwater nitrifying bacteria product. They confirmed the activity of nitrifying bacteria based on ammonia and nitrite oxidation. Sequencing data showed the presence of Ammonia-oxidizing and Nitrite-Oxidizing bacteria in Fritzzyme"

[ricshaw]

I remember when there were rotary phones and pay phones. What does that have anything to do with modern cellular technology? Nothing.


History has a way of repeating itself.

I am hearing the same thing I heard back when there were rotary phones.

[ricshaw]

Ricshaw- I once was at a collectors facility in the FL Keys. He had just set up a new system and wanted to 'Spike it' with ammonia. So he peed in it! Kinda makes me wonder if we've even progressed any. Seems a rudementary approach, but biolgically it makes sense to me. Kind of a wierd one.



Does not surprise me.

Commercial public aquariums use to start a new tank by keeping aquatic turtles in them until the bio-filtration has gone through a cycle, then remove the turtles and add fish.

It would not surprise me now if they use a "bacteria in a bottle" product.

[Will]

I didn't think that was so weird. Makes more sense than bottled aerobic bacteria to me.

[tranquility]

OMG--the pee thing made me laugh...Reminds me of when we got Fred and Ginger-Me and the dealer were mutual friends of one person--I had great plants and she had koi so he put us in contact...Well he and his partner came down for a visit and as a joke he took an empty wine bottle mixed Pee,water, and fertilizer in it....She was always asking him to ask me my secret to keeping my plants soo healthy--of course I told him simply miracle grow and Osmocote...Well he turned around and told her I said Goat pee...He convinced her that I trained the goats to pee in a pool and then I put this on my plants...So he takes her this concoction in a bottle(I didn't dare ask who peed in the bottle).....He said she was soo happy with the results from that bottle that she wanted to buy some more....I had to end the joke then and there and told her he had played a joke on her--that I used miracle grow and Osmocote on my plants...
Lawanna

[Will]

Mighty tough to pee into a wine bottle. Don't think I'd try.

[bill d.]

While working on the introduction of an aquarium version of the Pure Bio, I found this interesting article.

Pure Aquarium Review (http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/PFK_Review.pdf)

Thoughts and comments are most welcome!

Kind Regards,
Bill

[ricshaw]

While working on the introduction of an aquarium version of the Pure Bio, I found this interesting article.
Pure Aquarium Review (http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/PFK_Review.pdf)
Thoughts and comments are most welcome!
Kind Regards,
Bill

Thanks Bill! A good read!

From the article;

"Bacterial products scare me. I’ve a history of being skeptical of their effectiveness, traditionally trying to persuade people to adopt methods I trust more.
So, when the clear, gelatinous balls of Pure Aquarium — a derivation of Pond Pure — appeared I decided it was time to have it out with the creators."

Sound familiar? :watchout:

[ricshaw]

The above article confirms what I suspected with most (Note: I am being careful to not say "all") bacteria in the bottle products.
If they do contain bacteria, it is a different bacteria than we are thinking about.

[Will]

Furthermore, it can very negatively impact cycling as the heterotrophs outcompete the nitrifying bacteria in the biological conversion areas.

[ricshaw]

Furthermore, it can very negatively impact cycling as the heterotrophs outcompete the nitrifying bacteria in the biological conversion areas.

The article says; "The winning factor is the omission of any claim that this will start an aquarium cycle. The product is intended as a standalone to existing biological activity, and although it claims to — and by all accounts should — help establish tanks, it’s not intended as a sole developer of filter bacteria."

Not something I am interested in and not something I am going to bash EA for. Just a product that some people might find beneficial.

[Will]

Hear you. I'm certainly not bashing EA for it, then. Like I said, they have got bills to pay, too, and a cheaper, easier product can open avenues of business that expensive (although very nice) filtration products cannot. I'm still of the opinion that adding heterotroph bacteria to a pond is a bomb - to the nitrifying bacteria, if nothing else. Just goes back to the Walken quote again :big smile:

[WeWilly]

The only difference is the warranty. The old western electric phones had a warranty of 40 years. You could throw them at the wife and kids with no problems with the phones even if you missed and it went through the window an landed in the driveway.:loony:

I remember when there were rotary phones and pay phones. What does that have anything to do with modern cellular technology? Nothing.

[Meganne]

why spend the money.....?

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/Meganne_photos/lily%20pond/fillRup.jpg

[tranquility]

OMG--look how little he was then....I can't believe how fast Ryan has grown up...
Lawanna