How Important is water parameter tests?

[Squidhead]

All though I know it is important to monitor your water as it is possible it can and does change. Whether it is a private well or treated water supplied from your local water utility, things can change which change your waters chemistry.

I always preach test your water. I also have admitted that after a while I don't test as often as I should once I have an aquarium (or pond) well established, unless there is something I see that is a potential problem.

Sometimes life kicks you right in the butt to show you how stupid you can be by not doing what you know you should. Well the past week I noticed that my comet that will be going into the pond very soon was getting those blood streaks in it's tail and redness in it's white areas. I have one of those "Ammonia Alarms" in the tank that show any free ammonia and it's level. It had been pretty accurate so far, so I used it as a gage that ammonia was not the issue. At first I thought I was imagining it, as I rarely look at the fish real close and there are so many reflections in the little 10 gallon tank from the counter top it's on, that I would always think I was seeing things that weren't there.

Well last week when I did a water change after noticing the red streaks there was no ammonia, nitrite and about 5 ppm nitrate. When I tested the pH it was <6.0 ? No way, that can't be. I use RO/DI water to change that tanks water as I did when I filled it. The water was always 7.0 pH from my unfiltered tap water and from the RO/DI ! Once in a while I would put a small dash of baking soda in and bring it to 7.2-7.4 because my water has very little KH and I would maintain the 7.2- 7.4pH . I may have missed adding it the last time I did a PWC, but it shouldn't really matter!?!?

To go back in time, when we first moved in I hooked up our RO/DI unit that I had from my old house and it is about 6 years old. I knew enough from my experiences to test the water even after filtration because sometimes there may be something that gets by. My concerns in this house was ammonia from chloramine and chlorine along with pH. Everything was always where I wanted it. When i first filled the tank for this fish , both tank and filter where just as they where 3 years ago when I moved in.

OK back to that <6.0 pH test. I couldn't believe it. I re-tested thinking I must have made and error or something got into the test tube. Nope, 3 times later and <6.0 all 3 times. Ohhhhh....it must be a defective test!? So I go to old faithful, the RO/DI . The RO/DI tests <6.0....Yup! the test is too old and finally was done in. So in the trash can it goes.

Today, the fish looks even more red. I do my water change and decide to test ammonia. Guess what? almost 2ppm???? No Nitrites as usual. Then it hits me. The pH crashed for some reason and innturn so did my bio-filter. I have no pH test, but I do have my pH monitor/controller that I've been meaning to set back up. So off I go to the garage to rifle through the aquarium storage crates and get out the calibration solutions. Calibrate the monitor, test the aquarium 5.9pH. RO/DI 5.9pH. Unfiltered tap water 7.0pH. I am guessing that whatever the treatment plant uses to keep the water buffered was changed or lessoned and the RO/DI is removing whatever buffer is in there. I do a TDS test on the RO/DI and it's usual 2-3ppm is 0ppm TDS. Son of Baptist!

I have slowly buffered my pH up to 7.1 and it's been steady there. I added some Prime to bind the ammonia. The "ammonia alert" never registered because the free ammonia was in what the equipment considers safe <.02 ( 5.9 pH with 78F water and 2 ppm ammonium is only .015 free ammonia ) I have control over what is going on now and will have to establish a nitrifying cycle again. Hopefully some of the bacteria survived. I have 2 other aquariums, though very small that I will borrow some bacteria/biomedia from tomorrow when I change their water and I tossed in some cuttings of plants from those aquariums. Between the 40% water change and plants I have only 1ppm ammonia now. Thankfully the 2 small aquariums are heavy planted for the bettas. I always add a pinch of baking soda to the water because I do have low KH and I use an organic carbon supplement that only works if the KH is normal, but I will test those carefully from now on again.

The other thing is I also use this RO/DI unit for my drinking water. I have wanted to get a calicite alkaline filter for it just for drinking to bring the pH up. This filter also adds back in the water healthy essential elements like calcium, magnessium and potassium and will be better then it was before to drink. For the pond and tanks I bought a seperate RO/DI unit that I have also been toying the with idea of getting. I will continue to buffer the pond and fresh water aquariums with baking soda and maybe now some crushed coral and aragonite and/or limestone rocks. I may put a split 2-way on the new RO/DI and add another alkaline filter just for the reef when thats set up. I plan on doing a constant flow of new water to the pond instead of the traditional weekly water changes. I will have to figure a way to buffer that water because the alkaline filter buffers the pH higher then I would want for most freshwater fish.

This hobby is always interesting for sure! I have learned my lesson.....again!

[Meganne]

this hobby will keep ya humble thats for sure

[Peppy]

This hobby is so unforgiving. You go along all happy, everything is wonderful, then you make one tiny mistake and trouble with your fishy friends! It's such a bummer.

[Kntry]

Don’t raise your pH too high with ammonia, it makes the ammonia more toxic.

Once I get my aquariums and ponds stable, I don’t test very often. I was testing twice a day for months after we moved but I “think” I have them under control now. When I do water changes, I throw in several hands full of Gypsum and a little BS. I test about once a week now instead of twice a day.

Whenever you see red streaks, the first thing to check is the ammonia level.

[koikeepr]

I am personally not a fan of using household ammonia to cycle a pond. I think you also risk killing the bacteria you are developing on the media due to the toxicity.

[Squidhead]

Don’t raise your pH too high with ammonia, it makes the ammonia more toxic.

Once I get my aquariums and ponds stable, I don’t test very often. I was testing twice a day for months after we moved but I “think” I have them under control now. When I do water changes, I throw in several hands full of Gypsum and a little BS. I test about once a week now instead of twice a day.

Whenever you see red streaks, the first thing to check is the ammonia level.

Right, I am keeping the pH at a steady 7.1, even with the water changes to dilute ammonia. With the couple of times a day water changes I am doing, I am keeping my ammonia level lower, not going above .5, but not below .25 so I can get the nitrogen cycle going again. The temperature is also staying cooler which helps with toxicity levels. Lower temps and pH keep ammonia in the Ammonium stage where it isn't toxic or as toxic. If the pH becomes more basic and/or the temperature increases the ammonium isn't bound and releases becoming "free ammonia" which is what is very toxic.
I guess what fooled me is that after first seeing the red streaks, I did an ammonia test right away and none had shown. My test, tests both ammonium and free ammonia giving a total ammonia result and ziltch. The ammonia indicator didn't indicate any free ammonia either. I guess at that point, the ammonia hadn't built yet and the redness was a result of the highly acidic water and stress. By the time I figured it out the bio-filter had crashed from the low pH and ammonia had built. The redness had also spread. White skin was red now and the streaks where noticeable. At first, the streaks started in the tail fins, but where very, very slight. That's when I though I was seeing things because this poor fish came to me already sick and poisoned.

I hadn't tested the pH in a month because mine has been a steady 7.0 and rarely 6.8-6.9. I had only been testing ammonia weekly to make sure I was OK.

[Squidhead]

I am personally not a fan of using household ammonia to cycle a pond. I think you also risk killing the bacteria you are developing on the media due to the toxicity.

That's the thing though. This tank was cycled with the fish. I was originally setting it up so I could do a fishless cycle on it, but then the fish, an unexpected birthday present came. I just quickly set it up and ploped the fish in. I borrowed some media from the little betta tanks to seed the filter. I monitored it well the first 3 weeks until it was in cycle. The pH was one thing I really looked at because I wanted to increase it slightly daily to 6.8 after the nitrite showed up in tests. Nitrite is opposite of ammonia in that higher pH it is less toxic. The trick with cycling with fish is the balance between temperature and pH. The kicker is that the "good bacteria" are opposite of what the fish need. The good bacteria will double faster when temps are 78F. The bacteria that changes ammonia to nitrite will double faster at pH that is higher. The bacteria that changes nitrite to nitrate likes lower pH. That is one advantage to doing a fishless cycle, no fish to worry about while getting quicker results.

You are totally correct, when adding ammonia to cycle you can risk killing the bacteria in the filter. Caution should be taken in raising the Ammonia level. As long as the ammonia is not directly poured into the bio-media and is diluted before reaching the media there is no risk. After the first set of bacteria is noticeable then you need to keep dosing the water with ammonia, but only a little this time. Too much Free ammonia will definately kill the bacteria you just created defeating the purpose. It needs to be under 1ppm at a max. It is even better if you know you are adding some daily or a few times a day and it isn't detectable at all. The bacteria is being fed, but the level isn't toxic enough to kill the second bacteria that grows to convert nitrite to nitrate. So knowing how much to dose is important. Starting off slow adding a measured amount and testing the level after the water after a day to see what ratio you need to add to increase the level is very important. That way when you get to the 2nd stage of a cycle, you can keep the level under that 1ppm.
Other then that it is no more risk then adding fish and letting the ammonia build too high. If you screw up doing a fishless cycle, you only harm bacteria. if you screw up cycling with fish, the fish get the brunt of things.

[koikeepr]

yep, they don't call that fish a canary for nuthin'.

[Squidhead]

After a day, and a few PWC's and adding some live aquarium plants the ammonia is stabilizing somewhat .25 to .5ppm. The "nice" thing is Nitrite has appeared so the ammonia is being processed. The best I can guess is a little bacteria may have survived the pH crash and the plants are taking up the rest of the load.

[koikeepr]

You can have a bunch of my water hyacinths if you'd like. God knows they multiply like crazy.

Do you want me to lend you a bag of my bacti-twist for the filter? I'll take the mats back and put them back in the filter and then give them back to you in a few weeks?

How can I help?

[Squidhead]

I am talking about my little 10G tank the comet is in in this thread, not the pond. The pond is fine and in cycle, ready for fish except for the green water removal. When I get the UV it will be gone quickly. I may do a partial water change then use the micron filters to get it clear. I just realized the UV I got from Lowes until I get the bigger one is a 2.5W not 9W. I was wondering why it wasn't doing much.

The tank has about .25-.5 ammonia and .25-.5 nitrite as of last night. It should be oK and back to cycle by the weeks end. The ammonia is locked between water temp, pH and Prime just in case. The nitrite is also locked with the Prime and little bit of salt. The fish should recover. The Pond is fine though.

[koikeepr]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh! Doh! Thought you were talking about the pond! LOL!

[WeWilly]

I cycle all my filters with ammonia but with no fish in the water.
I have a 700 gallon qtank that has had no fish in it for 2 years. I keep it going with ammonia.


I am personally not a fan of using household ammonia to cycle a pond. I think you also risk killing the bacteria you are developing on the media due to the toxicity.

[Will]

Personally, I do a fishless cycle to kick off my stuff, too. Just don't like sacrificing even feeder fish. Once they're home, they're family. Does that make me sound too sensitive?

[Squidhead]

Personally, I do a fishless cycle to kick off my stuff, too. Just don't like sacrificing even feeder fish. Once they're home, they're family. Does that make me sound too sensitive?

You old softy, you!:big smile:
Just Kidding of course. No, I don't like to see things be poisoned and die slowly. I go hunting and fishing, but I hate to see things die slow. I make sure my shot is clean (bow and arrow) and don't take shots unless I know I can make a good one. With fishing, I do the brain bash. Even when it's time to put down a fish, it's quick and clean. The nicest part of fishless cycle is you can put highly toxic levels of ammonia and nitrite in the water without the ill affects on fish. If done right without errors, it takes less time to be in cycle. Then you can add only fish you want to, instead of the cheap ones you really wouldn't get otherwise.
A lot of times I see people with the intention of getting the "canary" and figure it is expendable. Then once they get it home, they take ownership fo it unwillingly and do start to care for it. Sometimes first fish die no matter what, but at least you have that piece of mind it wasn't from intentional exposure to toxins.
To be honest, I can use the canary and even just euthanize it when I'm done. That was before I had a wife and kids that would think I'm some sort of monster. Little do they know................Mu-ha-ha-haaaaaaaaaaaa!:lol:

[Peppy]

Something on water testing. Only works with non-chlorinated water though.

Those test cards are not the best means of determining color. I mean, you're trying to compare a nearly transparent liquid to a solid color on paper. Since I have well water that is chlorine and nitrite free, I do 2 tests each time. One on the pond water and one on the well water. By holding up 2 ammonia test tubes on either side of the color chart, I can see read ammonia between 0 and .25. I can estimate that it may be .05 or .1. Same with the nitrite. What you might read as 0 with one tube becomes possibly .1 or .05 when comparing 2 tubes, one pond and one well.

[Squidhead]

I use API tests. They are about the best I've seen when it comes to color charts. Ammonia 0.0ppm is a very distinct yellow. Whatever color the water first turns when you add the reagent and mix it, it should stay after the 5 minutes. Even real green water from algae doesn't skew it much. Chlorine wont affect the test of ammonia. Chloramine definately will. Seachem claims their ammonia test isn't skewed at all by chloramine as long as you use a dechlor. I never tried it myself though. Their little aquarium "ammonia alert" works pretty good. It takes a sometimes day sometimes for any change to register though, but they also warn you of that. They can be used in a pond, just stick it to a small piece of acrylic and put it in the filter or skimmer. You can pull it out for a quick second to check it.

[Peppy]

I use API tests too but comparing liquid to paper is beyond my capabilities. I think they should provide test tubes with some kind of gel or glass type medium the proper color so you can compare liquid to liquid. They could sell them separate from the tests. But my method works for me.

I used to use those ammonia alerts too but they get algae on them and you aren't supposed to touch them with your fingers so how do you wipe them off?

[Squidhead]

Pep, just curious. I had trouble with the colors before also. What I do now is hold the color card under bright light on an angle and lay the back of the test tube on the white part of the card so it makes a solid color instead of transparent. It is easier to tell that way. Indiect sunlight from a window or a bright fluorescent works the best.

[Peppy]

LOL, that's what I do and I still have problems reading those things! One day I decided to test the well water and where I had previously read the pond water test as zero, when compared to the well water there was a slight difference. I would estimate it as definitely below .1 but that is not zero. I was surprised and now I always do the double test to make sure what I think is zero is really zero.

It's easier for me to compare the two tubes of liquid than liquid to paper. That's just me I guess.

[Luvmypond]

I know some people when they test their saltwater, API is hard to read sometimes. They put the tube on the card and look down through the tube. They said it's easier to read that way. I never tried it. I only test my pond water after Spring cleaning. Or if there is a problem.

[Squidhead]

I usually don't check water as much in a mature or established tank/pond. The message I was attempting is that your water supply can change, more likely with "city water", but wells can and do have variations in parameters of concern. I had stopped testing the water in this tank because it had been consistant for a while. The fish was originally in poor condition from the fish store when my wife bought them and the tank wasn't in cycle. I normally do fishless cycles before adding any fish. There is usually no health issues with my fish that way. It had been doing great, fins grew back 10 fold and it's coloration was great. I tested the water because it was getting a reddish hue to it's white parts and it's fins started to clamp a little. It is slowly getting better again and would be in the pond with it's new mates. That was the plan to add all the fish the same time.

[Luvmypond]

I hear ya on the city water.