Summer planning - Best food for koi

[NewToKoi]

So folks,

In a couple of months we will all be planning to feed our koi so they can grow bigger. Since this is my first time, i wanted to ask you guys on recommendations on best food that will cause good growth for the koi.

After my reading I am leaning towards Tomigai Spirulina OR What Germ but am open to ideas.
Some others I am considering:
Manda Fu
Silk Worm Pupae

Let me know what you use or what you recommend.

[Birdman]

I feed equal parts Saki Growth, EA Health, and Miracle Koi.

[Peppy]

I like the Miracle Koi Food sales pitch. Makes good sense to me. I feed 1/3 to 1/2 Miracle Koi and feel good about that. I'm no expert just wanted to chime in about that.

[Lilylady]

Plant a cherry tomato plant just for them. My koi love them. It looks neat to see them suck them up. They flip their tails, make them roll, then have to chase them down. My big girls eat 5 or 6 in a row, no problem.

[koikeepr]

I can't remember, but isn't Miracle Koi a colorizing food? And I thought I also remember that it had to be fed in high temp waters....can't recall exactly...

Steve, what does it sell for these days? I've always wanted to try it... group buy anyone?

[Will]

I'd consider it, Lisa, but shipping might be an issue. I'm not really settled on this year's food. My fry inside have grown amazingly, they get a sporadic mix of tetra flakes, bloodworms, Laguna pellets, fresh veggies, and hyacinth root.

[NewToKoi]

I read about Miracle Koi and seems its the next best thing since sliced bread. The only 'patented' koi food, hmmm.
I'll be okay to try it with you Lisa.

[Coach]

Just the same as you wouldn't plan a dinner party with steak for quests to include, best friends and their first new born, koi of different ages have different needs with their food diets.

The dog and cat food industry has capitalized on this with product for young, mid and older aged pets. Smart!

Unfortunately the fish food folks have yet to figure that one out....SOOOOOOOooooooo that leaves you as the person to decide.
How one decides is first what is the purpose for the food. If it's to grow, then we'd better have enough water temperature to establish a strong metabolism to digest the meal. Wanting to grow a fish in 50 F is, just a dream not a reality. For good growth temps have to be minimally 68 F and better 74-76 F. When you have a mixed age pond (which most do) a mixing of pellet size helps. Small for babies and large for adults. Babies flash up and take medium pellets away from the slower older folks much to their frustration.
So back to metabolism. Besides water temperature we have to regulate protein percentage. Some food like manda foo with 28 % can be utilized in lower 50 F water. Those that claim over 38 % are better fed in the 70's. 32 and 36 are best used at 55F and above range. Do watch your amounts and under rather than over feed.

Foods that have pro-biotics do help with digestion. I highly recommend you to use them. They cost more but Koi are able to ingest more thus allowing you to get what you paid for.

In cold weather situations I used to subscribe to wheat germ only products. I now feed smaller amounts of fish meal based feeds. There is nothiung wrong with wheat germ use, but after 3 winter seasons of using other feeds CORRECTLY, I see no reason to go exclusively wheatgerm if you have reduced protein % fish based protein.

be a lable ingredients reader. If you want wheatgerm and the front of the bag promotes it as such yet the ingredients list shows it down abit and not first ingredient, then you know better what your actually feeding. I used to be angry at such manufacturers as being dishonest but since I found feeding less fishmeal based foods in winter works just as well with smaller amounts as wheatgerm, I quess that took away a lot of my anger. wasn't honest but didn't hurt anything.

Just as you can't by a "name brand" koi and expect them to all be the same, you can't buy a name brand manufacturer without doing your homework. When you see things like Feathermeal, that means it ups the % of the protein numbers but doesn't do anything for the fish, then you have to be suspicious. SO READ THOSE LABELS!

So don't push the season to feed too heavy too soon as that works against you. When you see floating fish waste stop feeding for 24 hrs and return with half the amount used before and slowly edge it back up in volumn to you see floating again. Then you skip 24 hrs and now know what to keep it under for amount.

Be fanatic about keeping your food properly sealed and out of the sun and moisture. To permit you to buy the best, buy in bulk with a bunch of others and repack the bag in smaller bags. Often you can get the cost down to half as much a pound as before.
About 33 lb sacks are as big as most manufacturers provide.

Hope something in this ramble helps. Foods I like if we want to be name droppers include Tomi-gai, Saki-hikari, and ea Health.
But only when their protein % and my water temperature match and i feed it in the right volumn.

[NewToKoi]

Thanks Coach, always great to read your informative and detailed explanations.
Most of my koi are still young, ranging from 8" to 12" and one about 6".

I've been reading the labels and thats why came to Tomigai. Sounds to me like I should use a mixture of Tomigai and EA health.
Anyone here want to share?

[Birdman]

I and my fish have loved Miracle Koi since I 1st tried it. When you see it you will be amazed. It looks like CRAP. Little pellets, big pellets, round ones, square ones, some sink, some float, pieces of worms, and fish heads. The point is most food makers over process their food to get the nice perfectly round pellets that are all the same uniform shape and color. Miracle Koi is just process enough to be bagged. It's like comparing steamed veggys to veggys that have had the crap boiled out of them. And Miracle Koi only comes in 1 lb vacuum bagged bags. There's no preservatives in it and they figure any bigger size bag would spoil before it is used up.

OK, you want a group buy, lets do it. I sell Miracle Koi for $12 a bag. A case has 48 bags. If I can get a group buy for 48 bags I'll go 10 bucks a bag, plus shipping.

[koikeepr]

I'd be in for two bags shipped to zip 28173. I'm in no rush to receive it, of course, since it ain't feeding time.

[NewToKoi]

How many lbs in a bag, Birdman?

[koikeepr]

it's 1 pound. Do a mix with something a bit more inexpensive, and it balances out.

[Will]

I'll do 2 bags, too, to 29670. Same lack of a hurry. Do we have enough active members to do the 48?

BTW, Steve, how long does a sealed bag keep? Should it be frozen?

[koikeepr]

Throw your order on this thread: http://www.thepondforum.com/showthread.php?557-Miracle-Koi-Group-Buy

We've kinda got two threads running in parallel... We'd be up to 12 bags with your two. I may go for another.

[Birdman]

Like I mentioned before I like to mix foods. I like the Saki Growth, it's a wheat germ based food that is very clean and provides good growth. I also use the EA Health food because it's a totally different food, it's causation based, no wheat germ at all. Then I fill in all the gaps with the Miracle Koi.

If I could only feed one food, it would be Miracle Koi. The Koi like it the best. I have thrown in all three at the same time and the Koi will always go after the sinking Miracle Koi 1st.

[Peppy]

You're right, Birdman, they LOVE that Miracle Koi food. And the babies can eat it too. Are you talking about Hikari Hi Growth? That's what I fed this summer along with the Miracle Koi and silk worm pupae. I tried another food but noticed the backwash water was much dirtier from that one so didn't buy any more of it.

I feed Miracle Koi food in pretty dang cold water. It's supposed to all temperature. It's the first thing I feed in the spring and that last thing I feed in the fall. What do you think about that? I mean, seriously. I don't know, I'm just going by the ad.

[Will]

I'll throw it in again, as you might have missed it, Steve. How long does an unopened bag remain good? Does it help if the bags, open or unopened, are frozen?

[WeWilly]

Remember folks there's more to growing large koi than high protien koi food.

[Birdman]

I'll throw it in again, as you might have missed it, Steve. How long does an unopened bag remain good? Does it help if the bags, open or unopened, are frozen?

The bags are resealable so a month or more. Just push all the air out when resealing it.

[Peppy]

WeWilly has a good point. I don't know exactly specifically why my koi are growing better now but there have been lots of changes aside from food, including: more gallons per fish, better and more filtration, better circulation, more air, cleaner pond. All that stuff adds up.

[WeWilly]

Does anyone measure their TDS?

[Coach]

Back in the good olde days, TDS stood for temporary duty station while in the military. Among us Koi nuts, it is an intregal "picture" of how your water lines up with being perfect. Can you live without having another expense and another meter. Yes, you can. If your really serious about learning. No you can't.
What i have found over the years is, that i get all this equipment, learn what it is teaching me, adjust what i do to the water and establish what it takes to maintain. Once maintained, I rarely get out any meters cause now i can just tell by different parameters including sight, and smell, how good I'm doing .
I think in a perfect world a group of Koi Kichii's gets together with a meter and work on several different
ponds, sharing minimal expense and learning together. The reason I mentioned the military earlier was because I think that once we learn something, we tend to lose interest and go on to another challenge,
once we have the previous one learned. So lots of what we do is temporary, as we climb up the ladder of understanding.

[Birdman]

Yes, I keep a eye on my TDS all the time. i have a TDS meter.

[Peppy]

You know what I like about this forum? The people and the freedom of speech. I mentioned somewhere else, after reading and reading about TDS meters, that I'd like to get me one of those. IMMEDIATELY followed responses about how there is so much more to water, blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda. Really irked me because it's okay for them to go on and on about these meters but let a newbie mention it and they're all over you. I know there are many aspects to koi and water keeping but what the heck is wrong with mentioning I'd like to have one of those meters like everyone else seemed to have?

That felt good. Sorry about the rant. It's all about attitude and this place has great people with great attitudes.

[koikeepr]

LOL! Am glad to read your little post Peppy. It's exactly the reason we created this forum and why we're here. Glad to hear we're still living up to the expectations we set early on.

I love that you are here! Thanks for being part of our group! :grouphug:

[Birdman]

I have a Milwaukee, and have been very happy with it.

[Peppy]

You did good, Koikeepr.

[koikeepr]

No, WE did good, Peppy! This site is about many voices...not one. It would not be successful without people like you and others participating and helping others to do right by their fish.

[Will]

Yeah! This forum is THE SHIT!

Well, not the bad shit. You know, the, um, good shit (can shit be good?). Not shit, but, like, the expression shit. Reminds me of Kate Nash, who is also, well, THE SHIT. Good shit. Especially her Shit Song. But I think that one's about bad shit. Like most shit.

Oh, shit! I hope I didn't upset anyone with this shit thing, I'm sure some people are upset by the word shit. They shouldn't be put off by it, because, well, shit is just... shit. Really, though, what was I talking about? I mean, besides shit?

Oh! yeah! This shit kicking awesome forum. Great job, folks. Just watch out for those foul-fingered people with no respect for shit.

Wow! One more and that'll be 20 shits! Oh, whoops! Shit!

Think I'll close now.

[Luvmypond]

Ha Ha My daughter got me this sign for Christmas a few years ago ...

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i62/witchlizzard/100_1384.jpg

[koikeepr]

I NEED one of these! LOL!

[Will]

That chic looks just like my daughter.

[koikeepr]

Then you should buy that sign for her future husband.:lol:

[Will]

No kidding! That would be great! Sounds a lot like her general attitude, too. Only a lot more humorous.

6 year olds are often funny, without ever intending to be. My daughter is an odd one, in that she is fully cognizant of her humor. In fact, she loves to screw with people and use sarcasm - accurately, and deadpans very well.

[Luvmypond]

I point to that sign a lot. My daughter knows me so well .... lol

[Meganne]

No kidding! That would be great! Sounds a lot like her general attitude, too. Only a lot more humorous.

6 year olds are often funny, without ever intending to be. My daughter is an odd one, in that she is fully cognizant of her humor. In fact, she loves to screw with people and use sarcasm - accurately, and deadpans very well.

I can remember my father having to leave the room so he wouldn't get caught laughing at my little brother when the kid was being a chit and needed repremanding instead of egging on!! LOL!!

[Peppy]

Luv, I love your sign! That is too funny! lol