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Thread: Ellisr63s Pond of Tears

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    ellisr63's Avatar
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    Ellisr63s Pond of Tears

    I posted in the welcome thread and was told to post a build thread here, so here it goes.

    This will be my second pond, my first pond was 2000 gallon fiberglass and built in the 1990s. This went with the house when I sold it about 10 years ago. I have been wanting a pond ever since I sold my first house. Fast forward 2 houses later and I am building a 8000 gallon in ground liner pond. We have the hole 90% completed and the trenching should be completed this week, with the concrete ring going in on Sunday ( praying )So far I have purchased...

    30'x40' 45mil liner (I think they goofed it says 30' x 50' )
    2 4" KoiToilet 1s (airated)
    4" ABS- 50'
    1" PVC (for air) 50'
    2" PVC 100' (more to come)
    Savio skimmer
    4 TPRs
    1 GPR

    I will be getting a sieve, UV, and a bead filter sometime in the future ($$$).

    The pond started as 2 10' circles which were connected to each other. We are now making the circlle by the waterfall about 12' in diameter. The pond is 5' deep and will be tapered down to the Koi Toilets.

    I have attached a drawing of the plan, and will take some pics this week to show where we are in the project.

    Questions:
    1: At what height do the TPRs and GPR go? I was thinking around 18' from the bottom. I am planning on 2 TPRs per circle and the GPR in the part connecting the two circles.

    2: Do you angle the TPRs downward and sideways?

    We are planning on trenching the bottom drains (exiting the pond) at a depth of 4'. I will be getting a sieve next. Money is real tight right now and I just want to get it to a point where the rains won't effect it.

    tia,
    Ron
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    Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Sweet! I like plans, even if they change a little. The 4" ABS, I don't know if you are thinking it needs it or was recommended, but I used regular white pvc from lowes. Oatey brand glue makes an abs to pvc glue. It will have a tendancy to push the fitting out until it dries, so have a helper and hold the KT's snug into the pipe. Do a 10' length to KT before adding additional lengths so it'll be easier to glue to KT. Plumb the KT with the small fittings to air first and get them in possition. Once the fittings for air are in place, glue the first 10' length of 4". From there you can find your trench and work your way from the KT to the firter area. This trench needs to be as deep as the KT (actually about 10"lower than to of KT, which is ground level) and needs to be level all the way to the sieve area. Each one of your KT's runs independant lines. Each needs a serviceable ball valve (these are expensive so start saving and hunting now, cheap ones are $80 each!). These two lines will meet at a 'Y' fitting. From the 'Y' you will accomodate the sieve. So, in reality, you need a trench that is level with the KT's all the way to the sive. Then a 90 up. So, if you can get to that point, just keep the pipe above ground to keep debris from entering and cover back up. When you get the sive and pumps you can easily unbury to place the sieve at correct height. remember that you will need access to the 4" valves, not only to service but to adjust the KT's so they have equal flow into the sieve.

    As for TPR's. You must consider that the aerators will push surface debris away from the center. Looking at your drawing, I'd place one at the 8:00 position (by lower rock) directing flow along the lower wall towards the skimmer. A second should go by the other bog area near the two rocks. It should direct flow along 'upper'wall toward skimmer. Third should be in center and point straight across pond. (looks like a bridge is drawn). The purpose is to prevent the 2 aerators from colflicting and giving a rapid boil that collects debris. I know my two aerators form a 'curtain' of air that will trap some leaves and hold them so them dont go to skimmer. I think in your case a tpr inbetween the two KT's will prevent this. The last tpr should be at the 4:00 position of drawing. It should dirsct flow toward the skimmer. notice the theme? Direct the flow toward the skimmer. Some will say have a circular or counter current flow, but with the aerators, you will want the flow going toward the skimmer. the KT's are amazing and with the aerators, theres no chance of midwater stall of leaves and poop and debris, There's a lot of movment wirth those. So, I think you are best served by putting the tpr's toward the skimmer in all locations.

    The height should be 6-12" off the bottom. that's what I was told. Having said that, my 2 are at 18 and 24 off the bottom. I can't really tell how far the water purges from the side but, the it must be decent. So, I'd say in the 6-24" range. But ask around. Lot's of ways to do this.

    I use a Medo 80 on my KT's. It works great. I have no other comparison, but I will say that it is impressive and exceeds my expectations.

    Cover the KT's with plastic and tape em off so debris doesn't enter.

    Hope this helps some.
    One won't know fact until they know fiction.

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    Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Before I forget- Once the liner is in place and the system is a go, cut the standpipe for the KT dome to the body. You want about 3/4"-1" from liner to dome. Thread in the standpipe and place dome. From there you can measure and cut, BUT take it slow and remember you can cut more but you can't add more. The distance is not from dome to body as one might think, the dome standpipe holder is recessed into dome and therefor tricky to measure. Most likely you'll have to cut once or twice. No biggie.

    I was never told this and as a first time ponder and KT user I thought the dome height was what it needed. Well, fish in sieve! Live, learn and share...
    One won't know fact until they know fiction.

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    NewToKoi's Avatar
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    Welcome Ron.
    Finally I have someone who is in Nor Cal. :)

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    ellisr63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    Sweet! I like plans, even if they change a little. The 4" ABS, I don't know if you are thinking it needs it or was recommended, but I used regular white pvc from lowes. Oatey brand glue makes an abs to pvc glue. It will have a tendancy to push the fitting out until it dries, so have a helper and hold the KT's snug into the pipe. Do a 10' length to KT before adding additional lengths so it'll be easier to glue to KT. Plumb the KT with the small fittings to air first and get them in possition. Once the fittings for air are in place, glue the first 10' length of 4". From there you can find your trench and work your way from the KT to the firter area. This trench needs to be as deep as the KT (actually about 10"lower than to of KT, which is ground level) and needs to be level all the way to the sieve area. Each one of your KT's runs independant lines. Each needs a serviceable ball valve (these are expensive so start saving and hunting now, cheap ones are $80 each!). These two lines will meet at a 'Y' fitting. From the 'Y' you will accomodate the sieve. So, in reality, you need a trench that is level with the KT's all the way to the sive. Then a 90 up. So, if you can get to that point, just keep the pipe above ground to keep debris from entering and cover back up. When you get the sive and pumps you can easily unbury to place the sieve at correct height. remember that you will need access to the 4" valves, not only to service but to adjust the KT's so they have equal flow into the sieve.

    As for TPR's. You must consider that the aerators will push surface debris away from the center. Looking at your drawing, I'd place one at the 8:00 position (by lower rock) directing flow along the lower wall towards the skimmer. A second should go by the other bog area near the two rocks. It should direct flow along 'upper'wall toward skimmer. Third should be in center and point straight across pond. (looks like a bridge is drawn). The purpose is to prevent the 2 aerators from colflicting and giving a rapid boil that collects debris. I know my two aerators form a 'curtain' of air that will trap some leaves and hold them so them dont go to skimmer. I think in your case a tpr inbetween the two KT's will prevent this. The last tpr should be at the 4:00 position of drawing. It should dirsct flow toward the skimmer. notice the theme? Direct the flow toward the skimmer. Some will say have a circular or counter current flow, but with the aerators, you will want the flow going toward the skimmer. the KT's are amazing and with the aerators, theres no chance of midwater stall of leaves and poop and debris, There's a lot of movment wirth those. So, I think you are best served by putting the tpr's toward the skimmer in all locations.

    The height should be 6-12" off the bottom. that's what I was told. Having said that, my 2 are at 18 and 24 off the bottom. I can't really tell how far the water purges from the side but, the it must be decent. So, I'd say in the 6-24" range. But ask around. Lot's of ways to do this.

    I use a Medo 80 on my KT's. It works great. I have no other comparison, but I will say that it is impressive and exceeds my expectations.

    Cover the KT's with plastic and tape em off so debris doesn't enter.

    Hope this helps some.

    So I need to dig the trench almost 6' deep all the way to the sieve? I was hoping I could do it 6' till it exited the pond and then 45 it to 4' depth and level it at 4' to the sieve.

    So the TPRs will be angled downward on some and angled up in other location?

    tia,
    Ron

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    ellisr63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewToKoi View Post
    Welcome Ron.
    Finally I have someone who is in Nor Cal. :)
    Thks, you are the first person I have heard of that is fairly local on this forum.

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    Welcome Ron. The TPRs should go about 16 inches off the bottom. The don't need to angle down, straight is OK. But for your circular shape use the 45 degree Dream Pond TPR flanges to angle the water in a circular flow around the BDs.
    The bottom of the sieve is 3 feet, so the ditch at the filter pit should be 4 feet deep. The two BD lines can angle up to 4 feet. They just can't go up then back down. That would trap air.

    PS I have a Christmas sale going with free shipping on the Cetus Sieve if that helps you any.
    Steve Joneli
    High Desert Koi Ponds
    www.highdesertkoi.com
    steve@highdesertkoi.com


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    ellisr63's Avatar
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    So if I understand this right... The TPEs would go like this ______ and not downward correct? I have the Dreampond ones.

    tia,
    Ron

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    ellisr63's Avatar
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    Is there any reason I shouldn't use 4" ABS pipes for the drains? The local Lowes didn't have any white 4" except for french drains. I checked with another store and they want more for the 4" PVC than I paid for the 4" ABS.
    Last edited by ellisr63; 11-29-2011 at 07:35 PM.

  10. #10
    ellisr63's Avatar
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    Here are some pics of what we have done so far...

    Waterfalls will be between the Bobcat and air compressor... I have 13' to play with from the fence to the edge of the pond. The sieve will be on the side of the house by the compressor (fence will be relocated back about 10'. Viewing will be from the deck. office, side of pond bt garage and from our second story deck over the primary viewing area. I will be getting boulders to line the pond and for a retaining wall. We also have a french drain that will be going in around the pond.
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    Last edited by ellisr63; 11-29-2011 at 08:28 PM.

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