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Thread: DIY sand & gravel filter.

  1. #21
    koikeepr's Avatar
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    I certainly can't comment on that. I don't know anyone that's used one for purposes of bio without having some other filter in place, too. Everyone I know that has one is using it for fines. Please do provide any links or research if you know of others who use it as their main and only bio plus fines. I'm always interested in learning more.
    This is my opinion. It is worth exactly what you paid for it.

  2. #22

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    Lord of Leaks
    I'm going mainly on the statements made by folks with far more experience than I have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kent Wallace (on Koiphen)
    Yes a sand and gravel filter is a polishing filter but because of the tremendous natural surface area in the rock, sand and gravel it will do a ton of bio conversion. Do not place any filter before or after a sand and gravel filter. Just good pre-filtration before.
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...66#post1868266


    Quote Originally Posted by Kent Wallace (on Koiphen)
    The 5 inch thick layer of sand at the top does the polishing and though it's a great polishing filter all the natural surface area of all the media does a ton of bio also so it's both bio and fines filtering. You can't get away from that. All fines filters with any type of media will also do lots of bio. It's just a type of biofilter that polishes the water extremely well also.
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...01#post1249201

    Though Steve Joneli aka Birdman only claims "some biological filtration" for SG filters on his main DIY thread and his vendor site, here's a thread where he recommends SG as the only biofilter for a 2400 gallon pond.
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...rain-freeze?s=

    I started a new thread over there to explore the question, and Steve agrees with you about bacteria being blown off, but says that the SG-only ponds he knows never have ammonia spikes after blowing out the filter. So though some bacteria probably is blown off, it doesn't seem to be enough to cause a problem.
    http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showth...90#post1898390

  3. #23
    koikeepr's Avatar
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    I have great respect for both Kent and Steve, and value their judgement as experts in our hobby. For them, it's also a business.

    As I said, I do feel blowing would disturb the bacteria. But Steve's point is well put that the deep gravel below would likely not budge with blowing, tho I'm also wondering if you have way less bacteria at that level anyway, since you have less oyxgen buried deep in there, etc.

    It's a great add of information to this site, Otter, thanks for posting it.
    This is my opinion. It is worth exactly what you paid for it.

  4. #24

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    Lord of Leaks
    I think there there should be more oxygen down where the gravel is. It's an upflow filter, hence the bacteria on the gravel get first crack at dissolved O2. But there's no doubt the gravel has less surface area than the sand. I think if Steve's customer's ponds aren't spiking ammonia, then a fair amount of bacteria must stay on the sand. Of course, I don't have any definite proof of this.

  5. #25
    koikeepr's Avatar
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    I think it's a fair statement, and likely you are right, Otter. This has been an interesting post. I'm happy you've interjected since it elevates our humble site past just noob level. These topics are certainly complex and worth exploring. Nonetheless, a sand and gravel filter is a worth addition to pond filtration as it does an outstanding job of polishing water like nothing else. If you are seeking that ultra clean water, this is the way to go!
    This is my opinion. It is worth exactly what you paid for it.

  6. #26

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    Lord of Leaks
    You are right about the complexity! It isn't rocket science; it's ecosystem management, but that's even worse.

    In interest of denoobing ourselves, here's an interesting article in which Mike Snaden argues against "sand filters". He seems to be saying the design results in more dissolved organics and he believes the main goal of the SG filter, gin clear water, is a bad idea because the fish can get too much UV.
    http://www.yumekoi.com/images/storie...NationsMud.pdf

    Any mechanical filter except a sieve or rotary drum is going to hold waste in the flow of water and hence make "tea", but perhaps it's better if the finest stuff isn't trapped in the full flow. I'm very interested in using separators for mechanical filtration, but I might use an SG for polishing. After reading Snaden's article, I wonder if it might make sense to have just one SG filter taking perhaps 1/4 of the total flow and flush that filter more often.

    I don't know about using feces as sunscreen, though. That certainly isn't my first choice at the beach! Perhaps it would be better to filter the water clear and add dye to protect the fish during the summer.

  7. #27
    koikeepr's Avatar
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    LOL! Otter, I do love that you are here on this site! You always write things that make me go hmmmm.....(in a good way to get me thinking!)

    And I like that!

    I appreciate your ability to show the other side of the coin in an intelligent and well-thought out manner. Thank you for being here.

    Please do post photos of your pond and set-up! I'm eager to see it!
    This is my opinion. It is worth exactly what you paid for it.

  8. #28
    cauzeneffeckt's Avatar
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    I literally just built one and put it to use about 8 hrs ago... I used a shop vac i use here at home.. its pretty amazing how it bubbles (i cleaned the rocks after putting them in) and brings up all the dirt... i was skeptical but just putting it to use i am confident this sucker will work nicely,an upgrade from my 22 gal rubber maid skippy

  9. #29
    koikeepr's Avatar
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    cauze, are you using this as your only form of filtration or is it an addition to other filtration? Can you snap a pic of it so we can see it?
    This is my opinion. It is worth exactly what you paid for it.

  10. #30
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    The sand and gravel filter may hold bio but it doesn't beat a moving bed filter, which I love.
    No a bead filter doesn't do as well as a moving bed filter.
    Go over where you got your info on the s/g fiter and start a poll to see how many people would only use a s/g filter as their only filtration if they were building a 2500 gallon pond or two of them on a 5000 gallon pond.

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