Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 53

Thread: RubberizeIt Failure.......

  1. #1
    Norm Walsh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA.
    Posts
    532
    Likes (Given)
    51
    Likes (Received)
    91

    Thumbs down RubberizeIt Failure.......

    Early last year a Buddy of mine had had his PVC (pool style) drop in liner fail, It's been a while but I think it was a root that punctured the liner originally and then as the pond sat empty during the repair it began to shrink and tear in the corners. Looking for a more permanent solution to his wood walled, dirt floor, liner pond I suggested he go concrete floor with block walls. No more worries about roots, rotting wood, or collapsing walls. He took my advice and proceeded to get the job done, he's retired and likes doing projects like this so with the help of some laborers he build the new shell himself. When it came time to seal it, I explained a couple option, my favorite, Polyurea, was more then he wanted to spend, we considered another drop-in liner, but he was not excited about that. A Xypex parge coat was an option but after 25 years in the trades one things for sure, concrete cracks, and in California I don't want to take a chance.

    I was aware of the RubberizeIt product, had seen it at the shows, talked with the local distributor (Anthony Quintero at Koi Enterprise), and talked with someone that had used it on their pond (spray applied). Wanting to try the product myself I suggested to my friend that if he would purchase the material, I would apply it at no charge so that I could get some experience with it. He agreed, and well let me say it has been nothing but frustration, luckily for me, my friend is very understanding.

    Starting with the new shell, I went around and knocked off all the high spots and little imperfections on the surface and the went about applying the first coat. The first coat is the RubberizeIt IG material which acts like a primer for the later coats of RubberizeIt UG. At the time the IG was used as a primer, and was the recommended product by the Distributor, they now list a Primer Grade (PG).

    IMG_0339.jpg

    The finished primer coat.....

    IMG_0344.jpg

    I unfortunately I did not take any pictures of the UG installation, but after the IG coat I proceeded with the thicker UG product. I first cut in all the corners and penetration, applying reinforcing fabric as recommended with a brush. After cutting in, I applied the first two coats with a brush, this took much longer then anticipated so I was not able to finish in the first day, checking with the Distributor I was told it was no problem to finish the next day. I switched to a 1/2" knapp roller and applied 2 more coats of UG on the entire pond, by this time I had applied over 8 gallons of UG product on the pond. As I rolled out the last coats things where looking really good and we both were happy with the results. I instructed Ken to wait a couple days for the material to cure before fill the pond and to let me know how it goes.

    A couple days later I get a call from Ken that the pond is leaking, the backfilling around the shell had not been done yet so you could see the wet spots on the backside of the block. There was a light on the side that was wet so I started to think I had done a poor job sealing it. I instructed Ken to just let the pond sit and see where it stops, well it seemed to stop at the bottom of the light niche so I figured that must be what it is. I had Ken drain the pond so that I could come over in the next couple days to reseal the light.

    When I got there and jumped in the pond to get going I was surprised to see all the pinholes in the block. These are not "pinholes" in the true sense, they are holes created by the porosity of the block. These were not visible when I applied the last coats of UG and must have opened as the material shrunk during the curing process.

    IMG_0391.JPG

    Additionally, I discovered the floor had blistered as well, I cut out the blisters and applied more material with reinforcing fabric.

    IMG_0389.JPG

    IMG_0388.jpg

    Being the optimist I resealed the light and hoped all the pinholes where sealed as well.

    To be continued.............

  2. #2
    Will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Pendleton, SC
    Posts
    7,575
    Likes (Given)
    411
    Likes (Received)
    271
    Member
    Interesting to see this, as I've been considering products for sealing an identically constructed pond.

    Will Schultze

  3. #3
    Kntry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Folsom, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,332
    Likes (Given)
    879
    Likes (Received)
    897
    Super Moderator
    OHHHH, MYYYYY, GOSH, Norm, that is EXACTLY what mine looks like. We talked about this but I didn't realize it was the exact same thing the way you described it.

    I don't think the holes in the side have anything to do with the porosity of the blocks. My pond is gunite with a top coat (don't know what it is but it holds water). When I applied the coats, it looked perfect till it started drying and then the holes started appearing.

    Before I even bought the product, I asked questions at Rubberizeit. I was first told to put the IG (primer) on in the morning and put the first coat of UG on that afternoon, the second coat the next morning, 3rd that afternoon. Months went by before I was ready to start so I called again with more questions. This time I was told to put the IG, wait till the next day for the first coat of UG and a couple of days in between for the each consecutive coat. This is what I did.

    Rubberizeit has been very helpful but they don't know what's going on either. The last instructions I had was to let it dry out now that I've pressure washed all the loose rubber off the entire bottom and about 10" up the walls. Once dry, put a test coat on the floor with a strip of seam tape and let it dry then try to remove the tape. They think that since I waited so long between coats, dust blew into the bottom and contaminated the walls between coats.

    The weird thing is, after cutting out the bubbles (much larger than yours), the rubber seemed to be stuck to the bottom. Then the pond got rain water in it which stayed for about 2 weeks. When I drained it, the rubber was now bubbling up and peeling about 2-4" above the water mark. I pulled and cut it out again till it stopped pulling. Same thing happened with next rain. This time, I used the pressure washer to maker sure I got the loose rubber off as far as it would go. This time, the rubber peeled up about 1.5-2' up the wall and stopped. We've have a tremendous amount of rain so the pond has more water in it now than ever. It's up to the 1' TPR's on the shallow side. Tomorrow, I'm going to drain it and see if the rubber is still peeling.

    I've decided since the pond is holding water, I'm not putting anything else on it. I'll probably use the rest of the IG I have left to make it all black but that's it. I've been fighting this for months and have about $2000 in Rubberizeit.

    Norm, keep in touch and let me know what happens with yours.
    The will of God will not take you where the GRACE of God cannot keep you.

    Sandy, K.O.I., KHA

  4. #4
    Appliance Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    6,156
    Likes (Given)
    1016
    Likes (Received)
    879
    A couple things...

    I like that Norm was wanting to do the install for free to gain experience. Kudos for being that way. And thanks for sharing the experience.

    I wonder if there is a better preparation method. Seems like you and Sandy both had the experiences, and you both applied the same manner. I am wondering if the spray application is best. Rolling may 'lift' the product. Also, what about a skim coat maybe? I am hesitant now on this product as well, Will!

    Bummer...
    Enjoying the ponds....

  5. #5
    ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    7,487
    Likes (Given)
    1004
    Likes (Received)
    927
    For what it is worth, I built my third pond with concrete floor with block walls.

    I sealed the block walls with two stucco coats of 50/50 cement/silica sand.



    I also sprayed the inside exposed concrete and stucco with Thompson water sealer.

    Back then (1990) I did not know or have as many sealing options.

    I also applied a coat of asphalt sealer.



    The asphalt sealer eventually wore off partially do to the oily Thompson water seal.

    I also used the same sealing procedure for the pond filter settling tank which was built using dry stacked blocks grouted full of concrete.



    Both have held up nice without leaking for 22+ years which included one major and several minor earthquakes.

    I attribute the sealing success to reinforced concrete sealed with the 50/50 cement/silica sand stucco coat.

  6. #6
    Kntry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Folsom, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,332
    Likes (Given)
    879
    Likes (Received)
    897
    Super Moderator
    Tim, after talking to Norm, I called Rubberizeit and expressed the concern about the roller causing the bubbles and they said no. They initially said I was working the product too much but I wasn't. I dipped the roller in the UG, let the excess drip off and started in the middle of the wall. I'd roll up and down and start on an angle from that path going back up. The majority of the time, I didn't roll back over the same spot twice unless I missed a spot. I asked about spraying and they said it wasn't necessary.

    They also said there was another pond that had the same problem and they decided that the guy lived in SC and the salt spray from the ocean was contaminating between layers. He peeled it all off and redid the layers without waiting so long between and supposedly, that worked.

    Rick, I'm going to find out Monday what they put as a coating on my pond. The guy is coming back Monday to fix "the situation" so I'll be able to ask him. Whatever it is, the pond holds water for weeks at a time, till I drain it.
    Last edited by Kntry; 01-19-2013 at 07:38 PM.
    The will of God will not take you where the GRACE of God cannot keep you.

    Sandy, K.O.I., KHA

  7. #7
    CC Koi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    Posts
    1,203
    Likes (Given)
    25
    Likes (Received)
    154
    Photobucket
    You can rent a sprayer from the company, allowing you to apply it very quickly and evenly. I think you keep it for a week and the price wasn't bad from what I remember.
    Member GLK&GS
    Member NMZNA

  8. #8
    Kntry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Folsom, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,332
    Likes (Given)
    879
    Likes (Received)
    897
    Super Moderator
    I think it was $500 to rent.
    The will of God will not take you where the GRACE of God cannot keep you.

    Sandy, K.O.I., KHA

  9. #9
    Norm Walsh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA.
    Posts
    532
    Likes (Given)
    51
    Likes (Received)
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    A couple things...

    I like that Norm was wanting to do the install for free to gain experience. Kudos for being that way. And thanks for sharing the experience.

    I wonder if there is a better preparation method. Seems like you and Sandy both had the experiences, and you both applied the same manner. I am wondering if the spray application is best. Rolling may 'lift' the product. Also, what about a skim coat maybe? I am hesitant now on this product as well, Will!

    Bummer...
    Thanks Tim, I do like to have experience with a product before I promote it.

  10. #10
    Norm Walsh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA.
    Posts
    532
    Likes (Given)
    51
    Likes (Received)
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by Kntry View Post
    I think it was $500 to rent.
    This is correct, and includes the shipping cost. I think this may be the best way to apply this product. That's part of my disappointment though, this product is promoted as a DIY option that can be hand applied. I was given a sample of the material that was spray applied and it is much thicker then what I was able to obtain by hand, I believe this is due to the catalyst that is used during the spray process.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •