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Thread: Can an ESBB 10500 be modified for reduced flow?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCAsan View Post
    Definitely go with Flowfriend. I can vary the shower flow rate to match temps throughout the year. When I bypass the shower in the winter, I cut the flow way down...just enough to keep pipes from freezing.
    This is the FlowFriend Pro

    flowfriend2.jpg

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlo View Post
    Yeah, this fiction that was being promoted on Koiphen at the time convinced me that I could buy the bigger pump and then use a ball valve and reduce electrical consumption. It turns out to be false. Be careful who you believe.
    You were told the truth. What they didn't tell you is the difference is minimal and with some pumps there is very little or no change. If you don't need variable flow just determine what output is needed and at what head pressure and purchase a conventional pump with a high efficiency AC motor. For most people when a valid real world calculation is made the payback on a Flowfriend is extremely long. If you live in an area with extreme electric pricing then the payback will be sooner.

  3. #13

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    The Flowfriend is most efficient at low head pressure. As head pressure increases conventional pumps with high efficiency motors become competive. Install a pressure gauge just after your existing pump and get an exact reading where you are running now.

    For me I don't need variable flow and the Flowfriend payback was non-existent.

    If anything ever goes wrong with the Flowfriend pump or the controller it will be very expensive to repair compared to a conventional pump.
    Last edited by BWCREEK; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:29 PM.

  4. #14

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    Just looked at the Flowfriend performance charts. If you only need 5000 gph at 7.5 to 10 feet head pressure there is no payback.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by BWCREEK View Post
    Just looked at the Flowfriend performance charts. If you only need 5000 gph at 7.5 to 10 feet head pressure there is no payback.
    There has been much discussion about Advantage not delivering what their charts say. Advantage has said they are redoing their test methods but I still do not see where they comply with any recognized test standard.

    FlowFriend actually calls out the standard they test to and comply with: NEN-EN-ISO 9906 standard.

    If the manufacture does not call out a recognized test standard I would be skeptical of the claims.

  6. #16

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    The Flowfriend Pro looses efficiency once you get to the 7.5 to 10 foot head range. Being axial design it shines at very low head and high volumes. The Flowfriend Standard is a hybrid design with higher head capabilities and for most a better choice. At the user requirements of 5000 gph flow at 7.5' to 10' head it doesn't compete well with a standard high efficiency pond pump from any of the major manufactures. At higher volumes it gets more competitive.

    When you are talking about a pump in the $300 to $400 range vs a $2500 pump it takes huge efficiency gains to pay off. The OPs best choice to meet his goals is to buy a correctly sized pump and sell what he has now.

  7. #17

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    I agree the FF standard is the better choice of FF for the flow/head requirements but there are several other considerations such as:

    Noise
    Working life
    Ability to run at, energy efficient, reduced flow if desired (I.E winter with cold temps and no feeding).

    Again, you don't really know the efficiency of the competitor pumps if you don't know their actual flow rates that are verified by using a standardized test procedure.
    Last edited by Douwe; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:09 PM.

  8. #18

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    Years ago all of the major pond pump manufactures had issues with accurate charts. I am told by experts in the business that lawsuits and the threat of have cleaned this up.

    The Flowfriend pumps are excellent pumps but extremely over priced. You need low head requirements and extremely high electric rates to make them competitive. Motors with variable speed controls also have more maintenance and reliability issues than a simple AC motor operating at a single speed.

  9. #19

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    At my electric rates and using the OPs specs it would take me almost 41 years to pay off a Flowfriend pump. Considering I could invest the $2100 difference there is no payoff. These pumps need low head, high volume and high electric rates to be competitive.
    ,

  10. #20

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    What pump would you chose for the OP's specs?

    We do have high electricity costs here in CA and when I did the comparison I found that my FF will offset the additional cost after 3 years and then it will start saving me money (probably more than I calculated since rates are continuing to rise) over any other pump on the market.

    I am a mechanical engineer by profession and I have not heard of lawsuits cleaning anything up. The only way to hold pump manufactures accountable is if they claim their flow rates are tied to an industry recognized test standard and they call out that standard. If I don't see an industry recognized test standard, called out by the manufacture, I do not trust their charts.

    I don't think you can generalize that all motors with variable speed controls have higher maintenance and reliability issues than those that do not. It really depends on the quality of the design and manufacture, either way.

    In my case the FF is a bargain since after three the reduced energy consumption will have offset the cost difference of any competitor and start saving me money in energy consumption year after year after that.
    Last edited by Douwe; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:41 PM.

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